Formation of new government

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Dan Murray

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Just trying to get my head around the emerging results and need some help please! Whilst the numbers suggest that the most plausible coalition is for FF & FG to hop into bed together, both parties have said that they would not so do during the campaign.

So a few questions....
- Should they break their campaign promises?
- If they do break their promises, why did they make them in the first place, given the figures now emerging (in terms of combined seats) were broadly predictable?
- And if they don't coalesce, do we have another election?
 
If Enda and Micheal stepped down as party leaders prior to its formation I think a FF/FG coalition would have credibility. It is what the country has voted for and the leaders would have to be held accountable for promises made in the election campaign. However that's not the culture here.
 
The consensus amongst a lot of politicians and media is that the people have voted for change. The people have voted to oust the present Government. Give the people what they voted for and let them see the reality of what they voted for. It might work. It is now up to all to all the politicians who are neither in FG or Labour to form a Government and deliver on their promises (and not break any of them). The larger opposition parties cannot sit on their hands (protesting) for the next so many years waiting until they become the largest party before they will go into Government. It is time to stop the tactical excuses and get into Government and test your policies and see how the work under scrutiny etc.
The country is in a better place overall than it was 5 years ago (not dispersed very well regionally) so there is a good opportunity to grow the country at a faster rate than in the last 5 years (albeit from a bad place) and hopefully a better life across the board.
Alas I am worried that this may not happen.
 
If the Shinners are the largest party in some sort of loony left bag of crazy all sorts I can't see the company I work in surviving as we are export focused and our key people are high skilled highly paid. They will leave if an extra 19% of their marginal income is taken in income tax.
An increase of 7% on income tax is equal to 19% of what's left when the marginal rate is already 53%.
 
Purple said:
If the Shinners are the largest party in some sort of loony left bag of crazy all sorts I can't see the company I work in surviving as we are export focused and our key people are high skilled highly paid. They will leave if an extra 19% of their marginal income is taken in income tax.
An increase of 7% on income tax is equal to 19% of what's left when the marginal rate is already 53%.
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I am really agreeing with you. I am really worried where we are going. We cannot afford to get into another mess again. There is no Utopia no matter what politicians think.

A poster stated on another thread that he got €450000 for a 3 bed from cluid as did 2 others in his estate. This type of solution is madness.
 
Not really a party political person but always vote.

Despite what FG and FF have said I think they will form some kind of "arrangement". Not sure Enda will survive but a deal where FF insist on abolition of Irish Water would present FG with a get out of jail free card.

FG could present the abolition of Irish water as a sacrifice that they would make for the sake of the country. At the end of the day what is the real difference between FF and FG in 2016.
 
Joe_90 said:
Not really a party political person but always vote.

Despite what FG and FF have said I think they will form some kind of "arrangement". Not sure Enda will survive but a deal where FF insist on abolition of Irish Water would present FG with a get out of jail free card.

FG could present the abolition of Irish water as a sacrifice that they would make for the sake of the country. At the end of the day what is the real difference between FF and FG in 2016.
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Except for the fact that Willie O'Dea has said that FF are not getting rid of the water charges only suspending them for 5 years.
An election promise broken before they have even formed a government.
 
Willie O'Dea is one of those whose one-liners always keep the people entertained. Now he is at it again. I suppose it is never the wrong time to do the right thing.
 
I hope water charges are kept, not just because everyone should have to pay for water beyond a certain allowance but because of the rag bag bunch of opportunists and idiots who opposed them.
 
Getting rid of water charges is a daft non-starter. We signed up to the EU directive on the matter in 2000, we were supposed to have implemented a system by 2010, we finally got around to kicking it all off in 2015. If we go back on that now, we will be in breach of the directive. The drivel spouted by FF/SF/AAA-PBP and all the other assorted populists is just that. They'll have to eat their words. No doubt the FF plan is to set up a "new" company - let's call it Uisce Fáil - TUPE the whole shebang over to that, pay an exhorbitant and completely pointless amount of money to rebrand and then give a 5 year moratorium on water charges to the domestic user while Uisce Fáil fixes the pipes (which clearly is THE biggest problem :rolleyes:). SF will do pretty well the exact same thing - only it will cost more and be called Uisce Féin (which will be Gerry's idea).
 
so-crates said:
Getting rid of water charges is a daft non-starter. We signed up to the EU directive on the matter in 2000, we were supposed to have implemented a system by 2010, we finally got around to kicking it all off in 2015.
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I'm amazed none of the parties of the 31st Dail made more of that directive. I'm not sure what the penalties of non-compliance are, but no one has come up with so much as an idea how we might comply while abolishing charges.
 
Cervelo said:
Except for the fact that Willie O'Dea has said that FF are not getting rid of the water charges only suspending them for 5 years.
An election promise broken before they have even formed a government.
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Not true. This was their position as per their manifesto so there is no broken promise here.
 
FF made a promise not to enter a coalition with FG. They made this clear to the electorate.

Likewise FG also ruled this out.

Should they back - track?

Absolutely not.
 
1. FG will concede somewhat on USC.
2. FF will concede on Irish Water , ie retain it in some fashion as a national water board.(I sensed that Irish Water per se, was not the main issue ,just the mishandling of it made it very voter toxic)
3. Both will agree to a fast track social/house building.
4. Both will set a Dail Panel to sort Health.I think all people accept that health needs more than one term and should be de-politicised were possible.



In so doing , most deputies, not just FG/FF have got a mechanism to sort the big issues.



It will then be up to FF to (support) on a case by case basis FG in Government.
The rest surely can,t overly argue , can they?



Might even work for us all.
 
I don't know about the manifesto but MM clearly said to Brian Dobson on 6:1 news that Irish water would be dissolved and that the water charges would also be scrapped and funding found from other areas, now he did say he can only speak for the life time of his government and not for future governments.
He clearly said that the people of Ireland have enough to pay for and water charges will be gone not suspended.
Why politicians have to consistently give misleading answers is something that discombobulates me.
 
Can't see FF jumping into bed with FG. Clear risk of a split in FF as a result with the likes of O'Cuiv very anti anything to do with FG. I don't think Martin will run the risk of them setting up a "real" FF or something similar
 
Watching one TV interview over the past few days a FF spokesperson snapped at another panelist. The first thing that hit me was Oh! This is the old FF arrogance showing itself again. This was when the outcome of the election was good for FF. If another election is called sooner rather than later I would suggest to FF that they watch their big mouths otherwise their recent election wins will all be reversed if there is another election.
 
I think a smart thing for FG to do would be to say they will work with FF. Either FF will agree or if they dont then FG gets to blame the sorry mess on FF.

My views are:

1. FG voters voted for stable government, not that many would be appalled by a FF coalition
2. The flight of the left from any notion of being is power is hilarious to watch, they know the fairytales end the moment they are in power and electoral wipeout swiftly follows - SF might as well be abstentionist for all they are going to do. They just want to keep building the party....once its big enough then personal property will be abolised and we'll invade the North.....
3. If FG outwardly (at least) look for the FF coalition & it doesnt happen then I think they shouldnt fear another election. There was always going to be a swing back for FF who were artificially low, FG still have had their 2nd best result ever - ok its down a lot on last time but was always going to be. Maybe next time the voters will see there's no point voting for the fantasists of the left.
4. FG should put Inda out to pasture.
5. Having SF as leaders of the opposition could be dangerous but their "free sweets" act can only go on so long.
 
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