Fingerprinting at Airports - any objections?

[truthseeker]

If you are using a passport legitimately then they already know who you are going through an airport so fingerpinting you makes no difference anyway.
If you are trying to conceal your identity and using a false passport then you must have something to hide, hence you'd be upset at the thought of being fingerprinted.

I really cant see what the big deal is. You are not being asked for a sample of DNA, you are not being asked to divulge your bank details or innermost thoughts, no one is asking you to travel in the nude - so you get fingerprinted in some airports - so what?

Posting your name, address, and bank details on a public internet forum is not quite the same thing as security staff at an airport ensuring that the people travelling are who they say they are. The staff at my bank already have access to my bank account details, name and address, its appropriate for them to do so - its not appropriate for anyone on the internet to have access to those details.
If I get fingerprinted at an airport only certain agencies will have access to my fingerprint, its not going to be a publically disseminated piece of information.

I would imagine that rather than preventing terrorism it prevents the movements of known criminals under false names.

 

[cole]

I really cant see what the big deal is. You are not being asked for a sample of DNA, you are not being asked to divulge your bank details or innermost thoughts, no one is asking you to travel in the nude - so you get fingerprinted in some airports - so what?

Would you have a problem with DNA samples being taken every time you travel?

At the moment that scenario isn't really feasible (results take too long) but in the near future it may become a reality. Where does it end? At what point do we say enough?

 

[truthseeker]

Would you have a problem with DNA samples being taken every time you travel?

At the moment that scenario isn't really feasible (results take too long) but in the near future it may become a reality. Where does it end? At what point do we say enough?

But thats a comparison of apples and oranges - taking a sample of something from my body is not the same thing as scanning an identifying part of my body.

A fingerprint can only be used for identification. A DNA sample could be used for a number of other purposes.

But - even if they did want a DNA sample when I travelled, so what? I leave DNA around the place all day everyday, hairs, dead skin, half chewed sandwiches. If someone wanted my DNA they wouldnt have to work too hard to get it anyway.

 

[miselemeas]

The procedure is in place to check your fingerprints with a database containing those of known criminals, no necessarily to just double check your passport details. I have no problem with it.

"The U.S. Department of Homeland Security says digital fingerscans makes the exit and entry system to the country more efficient. Before the finger scanning system was implemented, only names and biographical data were checked with databases of suspected terrorists or criminals. The fingerscans make it easier to compare identities with watch lists."​

 

[wavejumper]

i find it intrusive too and of not much use to "make us safer".

All the 9/11 hijackers had valid passports and went through security check no problem despite carrying weapons. I think that if someone really set their mind to it, they will find a way to repeat those attacks.

Time would be better spent trying to defuse the issues that caused those attacks i.e. the Israel/Palestine conflict, the Saudi's oppresive regime and generally the propping of repressive/fascist regimes that work nicely for the west but not for anyone else.

 

[DublinTexas]

Finger Printing/picture taking at UK airports has nothing to do with security/terrorism, it is so that BAA can maximise the shopping area on offer and tunnel all domestic customers through their shopping center and the resulting problem for immigration. Security is not the cause, their attempt to make you shop is.

Because they merged domestic and international departure they have to find a way to stop someone from entering a domestic departure that has not cleared immigration, which he could if he swapps boarding passes with someone else.

So what they do is if you fly domestic you have to give your fingerprint and/or picture and when you board it is compared that your fingerprint and/or picture is still the same as it was when you entered the shopping center.

This has nothing to do with the window dressing security that followed 9/11, this is just to make more money!

 

[shnaek]

For those who are happy to have fingerprinting at our airports, I am sure our politicians, Fianna Fail and the Civil Service are delighted at your confidence in them.

Personally I want to be able to get on a plane and go where I am going with as little inconvenience as possible. I envy the English, with their rail link to Europe. Flying is becoming a real pain these days!

I can't understand though, why the UK government is so keen on fingerprinting civilians when it's own officials go around leaving sensitive military documents on trains. Any chance of taking these guys in to an interrogation centre seeing as how they are leaking these documents to the public?

I wonder if some people here in Ireland would like to go back to the days of interrogation? Because, when they find fingerprinting doesn't work, they might have to go farther in order to protect us.

The UK is now the most under surveillance society in the world. And is it the safest?

 

[shnaek]

Right. This is getting interesting.
There's a definite feel of conspiracy about your post just there.

Is there? Do you trust politicians and civil service with your data? It is fingerprinting now, but how far do you let it go before you take a stand? Or are you the type that would never take a stand? Why not critique the situation early, and find out exactly how fingerprinting benefits society, before we agree to further erosion of our freedoms? Or are you happy to have your freedom eroded under spurious grounds?

Out of curiosity, what is your view on 9/11 ?

What has this got to do with anything? Merely drags the debate off topic. But if it satisfies you I am not one of the conspiracy people regarding 9/11. I love my freedom. And I don't want any busybodies, goons, cranks or idiots trying to take pieces of it away - ****ing down my back and telling me it's raining!

 

[diarmuidc]

- so you get fingerprinted in some airports - so what?

Did you read the Bruce Schneier link? Do and you will find out "so what"

If I get fingerprinted at an airport only certain agencies will have access to my fingerprint, its not going to be a publically disseminated piece of information.

Yes there's no way it could become public.

A fingerprint can only be used for identification. .

Yes that's the problem. If we decide to use fingerprints to identify people, then what happens when people start forging fingerprints? How do you modified your compromised fingerprint?

 

[truthseeker]

Did you read the Bruce Schneier link? Do and you will find out "so what"

Yes I did. But a passport can also be forged and there are many other methods of identify theft - so I still think 'so what'? Im not paranoid enough to worry about it. My fingerprint is only as open to forgery as my passport or anything else.

Yes there's no way it could become public.

This link talks about TWO, yes TWO discs that went missing, this is not an everyday situation, two discs - big deal. Errors can always occur - again Im just not paranoid enough to worry about it. In the scheme of things there is always potential for ANY private information to become public. Im in my 30's, I have had bank accounts since my teens, to date Ive not had a problem with my bank data getting into the wrong hands, or any other data belonging to me - its not a frequent enough event for me to spend time worrying about.

Yes that's the problem. If we decide to use fingerprints to identify people, then what happens when people start forging fingerprints? How do you modified your compromised fingerprint?

If people start forging fingerprints and it becomes a big enough issue then no doubt technology will look for another way to identify people. As it stands fingerprinting is not to replace carrying a passport, just to back it up. Really - I do not see the big deal.

 

[z106]

What has this got to do with anything? Merely drags the debate off topic. But if it satisfies you I am not one of the conspiracy people regarding 9/11. I love my freedom. And I don't want any busybodies, goons, cranks or idiots trying to take pieces of it away - ****ing down my back and telling me it's raining!

fair enough.

The reason I asked is because a lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists would all concur with you about the freedom thing and how in time, we will have no freedom left.

A lot of the 9/11 conpiracy theorists believe that 9/11 was done deliberately as an inside job and has played a major part in that process of taking peoples freedom away.

 

[Ash 22]

How do you get jobs there ?

I presume by going through that scanner too !!!

 

[Ceist Beag]

Flying is becoming a real pain these days!

Absolutely agree with that. Qwertyuiop do ye not think that we have less freedom these days? I certainly do - it's almost like ye need to prove these days that you haven't done anything wrong rather than the opposite!

 

[z103]

The reason I asked is because a lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists would all concur with you about the freedom thing and how in time, we will have no freedom left.

You don't have to be a '9/11 conspiracy theorist' to think this way. Is this a new label for people who worry about the erosion of their freedom?

 

[z106]

You don't have to be a '9/11 conspiracy theorist' to think this way. Is this a new label for people who worry about the erosion of their freedom?

I'm not saying that you have to be a 9/11 cospiracy theorist to think this way.

What i said was that most 9/11 conspiract theorists do think this way.

But that obviously doesn't mean most people who think this way is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

Hence the question - so we would find out.

And the question has been answered.

Really was no more to it than that.

 

[Teabag]

Absolutely agree with that. Qwertyuiop do ye not think that we have less freedom these days? I certainly do - it's almost like ye need to prove these days that you haven't done anything wrong rather than the opposite!

Do you think we have less freedom nowadays ?

I dont believe I have less 'freedom' day-to-day in Ireland than I had say 10/20 years ago.
Before that, I was a teenager and got away with murder !
I have the freedom to stand naked in the rain in a field full of thistles and that makes me happy...

 

[diarmuidc]

My fingerprint is only as open to forgery as my passport or anything else.

You can get a new passport. You can't get new fingerprints.

This link talks about TWO, yes TWO discs that went missing, this is not an everyday situation, two discs - big deal.

It's a huge deal. Once that info is out it's out. It's easily replicated data that can be copied infinitely without deterioration . Look at what happens when mp3's of a new album gets leaked, (and it only takes[broken link removed]). It's all over the internet in a day.
So someone gets their hands on those CDs in a few month/years you have details of every person with a kid under 16 in the UK up on the Pirate Bay, USENET, whereever. No big deal? Really?

Im in my 30's, I have had bank accounts since my teens, to date Ive not had a problem with my bank data getting into the wrong hands, or any other data belonging to me - its not a frequent enough event for me to spend time worrying about.

I'm fine Jack. You haven't been killed in a car crash either, so I guess that's not a problem either.

I do not see the big deal.

You're not looking hard enough.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Do you think we have less freedom nowadays ?

I dont believe I have less 'freedom' day-to-day in Ireland than I had say 10/20 years ago.
Before that, I was a teenager and got away with murder !
I have the freedom to stand naked in the rain in a field full of thistles and that makes me happy...

10/20 years ago you could breeze through an airport on your way to the boarding gate - nowadays you have to remove yer shoes and belt enroute ... you're not allowed to bring large bottles of drink on with you ... your bags can be emptied and searched and regularly are ... and now at the far side you're also subjected to further checks ... you telling me this isn't an intrusion on our liberties? Sure there is argument put forward that this is all needed to prevent the "baddies" blowing us all up but I don't buy into that meself.

 

[diarmuidc]

you're not allowed to bring large bottles of drink on with you

This has got to be the best one ever.
If you ever need proof that people can be treated like sheep, it's convincing them that pouring their 300 ml of shampoo into 3x100ml bottles is making them safer. (of course once you are past security you can buy a bottle and re-constitute the 300ml)

 

[z103]

I have the freedom to stand naked in the rain in a field full of thistles and that makes me happy...

I would doubt it. Try it and let us know what happens, especially if someone sees you.