family first from the EBS

parental aid

This is slightly off topic. But surely this whole discussion is evidence of the gross overvaluation in the residential market. Why should parents have to burrow to help their offspring buy a house? Of course parental involvement adds to demand further pushing up prices.
Falling interest rates will continue to support the market this year. But eventually the cycle turns.
Furthermore there is a retirement crisis brewing all over the developed world. The problem is not as severe in Ireland as in Japan and continental Europe but basically people are living longer, healthcare is more expensive(including nursing home care) and return on investments will be much lower than the optimistic projections of insurance Co.
For those outside the public sector on private pensions and those with defined contibution plans, hold on to your money.
 
EBS family first

Brendan,

u r still wired 2 the moon:(

"or if the parents are close to nursing home stage "

who can estimate this?

Rgds, F
 
Re: EBS family first

I agree with tyoung.

Last year I was asked to comment on the new higher multiples of salary being offered by lenders. I said that selfishly I was delighted because it was good for business for me, but I also believed that it would contribute further to house price inflation. If houses are reaching a level where many FTB's can't get on the ladder, offering bigger mortgages is a very short-term solution to that problem. (And yes I know the bigger mortgages were a result of lower interest rates and therefore greater affordability, but the effect they had on house prices was the same).

Now the EBS product. If it's successful (and judging by the amount of publicity and free discussion it has generated, it probably will be), other lenders will follow suit and it will become even more commonplace for parents to borrow to help their FTB kids. And so the cycle will continue upwards.

But if lenders didn't offer these deals, wouldn't that mean that eventually demand would dry up and prices would level out? Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming lenders for dreaming up products that will sell - that's what they're in business for.
 
EBS advert

Just going slightly off-topic for a moment, in relation to the EBS advert, it was interesting to read an Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland spokesperson being quoted in last Sunday’s [broken link removed] that "there is nothing in the ad that obviously breaches the (advertising)code, but we will keep an open mind, it seems to be upsetting people, and there is a provision in our code that says ads should not cause widespread offence."

Up to last weekend, the ASAI said it had only received two formal complaints. :\
 
No kids? Use your EBS mortgage account to your advantage.

For those of you who have an EBS mortgage, some savings and no children may I offer the following advice.

Rather than keep your savings in a deposit account that is paying a miserly amount of interest and DIRT why not do the following.

Transfer your savings in to your mortgage account, not to pay off the capital, but to sit there as a credit in your account. If you have a variable interest rate on your mortgage account you can do this. So instead of getting a lowly 1% on your savings you end up saving 4%+ in interest on your mortgage on the amount lodged. You won't get a better savings rate than this.

Most financial institutions will let you do this and if you need to withdraw a lump sum simply ask for the amount back from your credit balance. In other words your mortgage account becomes your savings account.

You don't get interest but you save paying interest.
 
Hi All

I think there are a number of issues here.

Firstly, the Ad itself annoys me. I note there is only one parent in the Ad - the dad - and the child looking for a mortgage is also male!

Secondly, parents who have been able to give money to their children have probably always done so. It's a fact of life - some parents are well off or reasonably well off and have been able to give a "leg up" to their children. I'm not aware of any studies which highlight the effect this may have had on house prices!

Thirdly, the emphasis has now shifted to the parents borrowing money to help out the children. So, one presumes that they are not well-off and that this opportunity only arises because of the increased equity in their homes.

A friend of mine mentioned recently that when she and her husband took out their mortgage 12 years ago on a £30,000 loan that they were paying 3/4 of her salary in repayments. People have always found it difficult to pay mortgages.

I think that we are a nation which desires instant gratification - we want it all now. The EBS ads are playing to this notion and has correctly identified parents as a soft touch!

Every person can weigh up the advantages of providing for their children now or later - if ever - why should children expect to inherit something from their parents? I presume that the parents will have given their children a good life when they are growing up

I don't know why parents are getting upset about this Ad, or indeed, feeling guilty about it. If it suits parents to do this - they should. If not, then they should not and they should not be pressurised by their children to do so. People in their 20s don't "need" to own their own home.

Marion :hat
 
I hate the ad too. However I strongly disagree with the insinuation by many people/commentators that the ad somehow pressurises people into doing something that they don't want to do. It's like arguing that Guinness ads force us to drink pints and cigarette ads (if they exist any more?) force us to smoke fags! Whatever happened to personal responsibility and free will?! :rolleyes
 
Family First

I hate the ad too. In fact, I think they should fire their ad agency.

Imagine how much more effective (and less troublesome media-wise) it would have been if they'd gone at it the other way round .... instead of the gloomy atmosphere, pressure-laden tones, head-shaking male-only participants, etc they could have had offspring and spouse chatting over dinner about the wonderful new house they've seen but can't quite afford, concerned parents asking how much they need and suggesting that they know a way in which they can, and would love to, help out, etc (without going to the lengths, obviously, of the laughing hyena approach that PermanentTSB took for their equity release product - I hated those ads too.)

They'd probably have got grief then for being too happy-clappy about a serious social problem, but it would have been a much more effective ad campaign imho.
 
Re: Family First

Yeah - most ads are crap. Some are very irritating. A few (usually those that use humour well in my opinion) are enjoyable. However I still can't see why EBS are being pilloried for this particular attempt. I mean it (and I mean the ad itself as opposed to the related pertinent issue of house prices etc.) has been discussed on The Late Late Show, The Marian Fnucane Show, various Sunday talk shows, AAM, the papers etc. usually with the EBS cast as the villain of the piece! :rolleyes
 
How you tell it

I think Doggie has hit the nail on the head. Nothing wrong with the product but presentation all wrong.

Instead of suggesting that the son is entitled to this money making any parent not so providing feel like a right heel, it would be much more acceptable if it had been presented as an extremely generous gesture on the part of the Da - so that one should not feel any guilt if in your particular case you cannot rise to these levels of altruism. :rolleyes
 
ebs

"I think that we are a nation which desires instant gratification - we want it all now. The EBS ads are playing to this notion and has correctly identified parents as a soft touch!" Marion


this it exactly,
20-30, great "life", new car, new house, fully carpeted & furnished, holidays x 2 and
we want it all now(mum & dad !)

F
 
House Prices

Hi Marion

A friend of mine mentioned recently that when she and her husband took out their mortgage 12 years ago on a £30,000 loan that they were paying 3/4 of her salary in repayments. People have always found it difficult to pay mortgages.
Click to expand...

I do think that it is substantially more difficult today for young people/couples to get their first step onto the property ladder. To quote the latest BOI Quarterly Irish Property Review;

Indeed, the move to a much lower rate environment has resulted in a steep shift upward in the price of Irish assets relative to income - the average house in 2002 costs around six times average disposable income per worker, up from around three in the mid-1990's.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Advertising

Quoth ClubMan...

...has been discussed on The Late Late Show, The Marian Fnucane Show, various Sunday talk shows, AAM, the papers etc. usually with the EBS cast as the villain of the piece!

Maybe the EBS ad agency is cleverer than we give them credit for. With all the controversy it has generated (see above), loads of people have heard about the product. And isn't that what advertising is all about? Even if you are listening to a radio show lambasting the product, if the product described seems to suit your needs, you'll make a note of it.
 
Re: Advertising

Well whatever about that, I have stoutly defended the EBS and its raison d'etre in these pages and elsewhere in the past, and I must say that the disgraceful so-called "Family First" promotion has certainly damaged my own opinion of the EBS and the motives of its management.
 
ebs

ah converted at last !

I use the EBS a lot (mortgage, sdavings, ssia, summit)

However, their not the most efficient org in the business

they need the KITA motivational technique applied readily to their senior mgt

lucky they don't have shareholders, the mgt might have to account for themselves.

maybe mutuals should treat their members as shareholders, issue divs and explain their mgt

F
 
Re: ebs

Hi Flash

Just because the run a crappy ad campaign for a crappy product doesn't mean they should automatically demutualise.

Anyway, I doubt if it would be legal for a mutual to pay a dividend to members??? Can anyone advise???

T.
 
Possible EBS dividend?

Don't credit unions pay dividends to their members?

Contango10
 
YES, YES, YES.

Mutuals are supposed to pay dividends to their customers in the form of lower mortgage rates and higher savings rates. Unfortunately this mutual is doing neither.

Maybe they have spent our dividends on their new head office on Burlington Road, large pensions and golden handshakes to retiring directors, and big cars for their senior management.

:hat
 
Re: YES, YES, YES.

Maybe they have spent our dividends on their new head office on Burlington Road, large pensions and golden handshakes to retiring directors, and big cars for their senior management.
Click to expand...

Ahhh...reminds me of the old guff that used to spew out from the likes of pre-ceasefires Sinn Féin, the Militant wings of the Labour Party (both sides of the Irish Sea) and Tomas McGiolla's Workers Party around 1983. Those were indeed the days...

You would swear that no other financial institution in Ireland ever provided itself with new offices and nice remuneration packages for its managers.
 
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