FAIR "Love Ulster" march in Dublin

dam099 said:
I am just saying that in my personal experience once people are removed from the enviroment in NI their opinions on nationality seem to be a little less black and white.
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Your experience mirrors mine, apart from the fact that I am from the North.

I met people in various far flung places who were delighted to hear an 'accent from home' and once the questioning of 'what's your surname' or 'what school did you go to' was dealt with, we all knew where we stood and got along really well.

It's disappointing that the march turned into a riot, IMHO any protest which is likely to cause distruption to the city centre, damage to businesses or injury to members of the Gardai, should not be permitted.
 
So a violent rabble of narrow minded sectarian gobdaws, have prevented a crowd of narrow minded sectarian gobdaws from marching/parading through Dublin. This sordid little shambles (and I don’t mean the road works on O’Connell Street), will now dominate political debate in Ireland for a couple of weeks, in another utterly futile exercise in bringing rational thought to a subject matter that predates the enlightenment in its origins.

I think that instead of parades or marches by opposing ‘traditions’; from now on we should organise a bimonthly cartoon competition. Any thoughts?
 
soc said:
JI noticed that alot of the ones on O'Connell St, causing the problems were inner city scumbags...
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I thought that the addresses of many of the 14 in court tonight were not inner city?
delgirl said:
It's disappointing that the march turned into a riot
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It didn't. The march never got going and the riot was between counter demonstrators and Gardai.
 
The scumbags (from whatever postal code) managed to damage the international image of this country. The New York Times ran a nice superficial little story about it today.
The Marchers got exactly what they wanted; they showed their supporters back up North that we in the "South" are still too sectarian to be taken seriously when we talk of a pluralist united Ireland. Having seen the RSF supporters on the News I am inclined to agree with them. The fact that many of them are as bigoted as the stone throwers is beside the point.
 
I had the misfortune of being in Dublin city yesterday during the violence ... not an experience I would care to repeat.

O'Connell street was completely closed off. There were gardai in riot gear (50+ of them) cordoning off O'Connell bridge ... which was in my opinion their only option. If those thugs got home they would never be caught. Fair play to the gardai they did a great job.

It was like a war zone ... with an energy of violence and a mob dynamic all of it's own.

Neo-nationalism may have been the excuse, but IMHO it was an opportunity to engage in violence for the sake of it.
 
Isn't it OTT to suggest that Irish citizens didn't welcome our neighbours from the North of Ireland because a small number of thugs created mayhem? There seems to have been very poor planning or preparation by the authorities for the march.

Due to a prior arrangement I planned a visit to the cinema in Parnell Street yesterday afternoon. At 2.15 pm while on the 46A bus, the driver got a message telling him to drop the passengers in Leeson Street. Wasn't that a bit late to be diverting traffic from the city centre? I made my way to Parnell Street walking parallel to O'Connell Street and saw nothing untoward.

After the film around 5.30pm we walked the length of O'Connell Street. The only signs of the riot then were about six smashed windows in premises between Batchelor's Walk and Abbey Street. What was most striking was the building site appearance of O'Connell Street. Clearly it would have been impossible to have effectively monitored a march through O'Connell Street with large areas of the street dug up. A perfect location for thugs whose sole purpose was to create mayhem. A listener who was there phoned the Marion Finnucane show today and said he overheard one of the rioters ask where was the Dail and was told Dame Street!

Given the hype that preceded the march I don't think 50 gardai was an adequate response or that the route should have been through O'Connell Street. Political motives aren't attributed to football hooligans and neither should they be attributed to yesterday's protesters.
 
Saw this on the RTE 9o'clock news last night.... what I found peculiar was the limited amount of video footage being shown...RTE replayed the same short clips 2 or 3 times....

ninsaga
 
One slightly tangential annoying thing about this whole incident was the impression (hopefully wrong) given by many news reports that the Dublin City Business Association - representing (some?) traders in the city - were the final arbiters in relation to what could and could not happen in the city centre. Many reports justified the arrangements and policing for the abortive march on the basis that the DCBA had given them their imprimatur. Commerce is obviously an important part of this (as any) city but should not necessarily be given more weight than other activities carried out.
 
ninsaga said:
What I found peculiar was the limited amount of video footage being shown...RTE replayed the same short clips 2 or 3 times....
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That was probably because RTE managed to get very little footage. I'd say most of the cameramen headed for the hills once the trouble started.
 
I'd say most of the cameramen headed for the hills once the trouble started.
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Charlie Bird was attacked by 4 yobs and was taken to hospital so it probably wasn't safe for any cameraman to be there.
 
Sadly inevitable would be my verdict. Trouble should have been expected - even on this site (and I doubt anyone here had an inside track) there was anticpation of a scumbags day out.

However, I dont think this is such a big deal, I dont really think it will do long term damage. It will give some politicians in the North something the crow about (am I bothered?) but not like they needed it. I'm thankful the parade didnt get going because if the bandsmen were assaulted then it would have been much much worse.

Maybe theres some good to come out of it - its a bit of a wake up call that the "republican" movement that has appeared to be dynamic & hard working is also/more significantly sectarian, anti-law & order.

Also, I dont think we should feel ashamed of the south just because of a few idiots - I think there was an element of mischevious intent in organising the march and while we have to try to accomodate them (lest we be accused of being anti-democratic & all the rest) we shouldnt now feel compelled to throw open the doors to all to 'make up for' Saturday.

I think it would be more appropriate to encourage/allow a 12th of July parade at the Boyne Valley site and leave it at that - what do they want in Dublin??
 
If anyone is interested in the global coverage of Saturday's events, CNN's report is here: [broken link removed]
 

Funny, I was just thinking on the bus on the way in to work this morning that the scenes on Saturday came much closer than anything else in the recent past to making me feel ashamed to be Irish.

Regardless of the motives behind the Love Ulster parade we have to try and accomodate them not lest we be accused of being anti-democratic but rather lest we be anti-democratic. The sight of the Orange order marching, to be completely honest, fairly sets my blood boiling (my instinctive, emotional reaction to some things surprises me at time) - but it is their right to do so and that is more important than my feelings.
 
Janet said:
Funny, I was just thinking on the bus on the way in to work this morning that the scenes on Saturday came much closer than anything else in the recent past to making me feel ashamed to be Irish.
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I don't share your view. Most right minded people around the globe will appreciate that the perpetrators of the violence on Saturday are no different to the thugs that have caused trouble in the past at marches in London or at some of the G8 meetings - it doesn't reflect badly on Irish people generally. Personally would love to have seen dog units, horse units, baton rounds and water canon used on the thugs and hopefully with tv coverage and cctv on the day the perpetrators will be identified and brought to justice.
 
  • On Saturday damage done was estimated at €50K. Today's estimate is €10M. Now that's what I call inflation.
  • Was it just my prejudice, or was it the RTE editing, or did Celtic FC jerseys seem prominent in TV coverage of the events ? Time to make the wearing of that garment a civil offence ?
  • It would be illuminating to have an opportunity for the perpetrators of the disorder on Saturday to explain their political views. I'd guess it is a view of Republicanism with which I am not familiar.
  • Jeffrey Donaldson, on Newstalk 106 this morning, actually made one or two valid points, amid the usual hysterical rant. Maybe I'll have to start buying the Sunday Independent ?
 
Anyone hear Mcdomhaill saying that the guards had no forewarning of the riot so they were underprepared and that noone had expected the level of trouble that occurred?
The words dogs and street come to mind. I was talking to several people in a bar on friday night all of whom knew that they were to avoid town on the saturday. An unsuspecting member of the public not knowing is understandable but to say noone in authority knew is just unbelievable.
 
Does anyone know if the Gardai used their batons against the rioters? I suspect it was limited if they did, as it hasn't been mentioned in the news that I've heard. I would also suspect that the May day riots was in the back of their minds and may perhaps have lead to more restraint than they should have shown the rioters.
 
In my opinion this was an attack on the gardai more than any attempt to assault the marchers. If violent opposition to the marchers was their purpose then why not wait until the marchers were within range when real damage could be done.
These were just opportunistic scum who saw that they had the numbers to take on the gardai and terrorise ordinary people, this is proven by their subsequent actions of damaging property, looting, assaulting ordinary people and willingness to engage violently with the gardai.
We saw these fools last year on St Patricks day, we will see them again this year and any other occasion that they sense an opportunity.
However, the only thing I find embarrassing are those who start and then propagate the "embarassed to be Irish" crap. Are a couple of hundred scumbags representative of us, are we that stupid that when we see riots elsewhere that we think "oh everyone in that country must be really terrible people". Were these same people embarassed when our president decided to make statements abhorred by most Irish people and to indirectly condone the segregation and second class treatment of women.
What this was was a missed opportunity. There was trouble as predicted at the start of this thread and everywhere else except garda headquarters. Who wouldn't have liked to see the gardai deal ruthlessly and efficiently with these scum, even the gardai themselves know that this was an opportunity to administer (legally) the only kind of justice these scum understand. These are the scum who perpetrate crimes everyday against ordinary people and who never get sent to prison or don't care even if they are. To have an opporunity to get a decent amount of them in one place breaking the law and not respond appropriately is the real shame here.
 
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