FAIR "Love Ulster" march in Dublin
- Thread starter car
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Re: LOVE march
But sure aren't those LOVEies from another part of the European Union, so they are not really foreigners
The route takes them past some old British-era landmarks - including the building on Dawson St where the Orange Order was founded. 'New Ireland Assurance' is there now , I think (how ironic !)
Some of the other streets on the route (Molesworth St for example) are named after various Crown ministers and ambassadors etc ...
But sure aren't those LOVEies from another part of the European Union, so they are not really foreigners
The route takes them past some old British-era landmarks - including the building on Dawson St where the Orange Order was founded. 'New Ireland Assurance' is there now , I think (how ironic !)
Some of the other streets on the route (Molesworth St for example) are named after various Crown ministers and ambassadors etc ...
Re: LOVE march
They might be from the UK but its a part of the UK we had a territorial claim on until not that long ago. They also have an automatic right to Irish citizenship so even though they won't claim it they are not unconnected to this state.
Finally our government routinely interferes (from their point of view and there is an element of truth in it) in the running of their state so they are perfectly entitled to come here and protest the actions of that government.
ronan_d_john said:
They might be from the UK but its a part of the UK we had a territorial claim on until not that long ago. They also have an automatic right to Irish citizenship so even though they won't claim it they are not unconnected to this state.
Finally our government routinely interferes (from their point of view and there is an element of truth in it) in the running of their state so they are perfectly entitled to come here and protest the actions of that government.
Re: LOVE march
Maybe they'll all end up in Dalymount Park boosting our bar coffers like when all the Linfield fans did likewise last time they played down here.
I specifically meant that it was a very dangerous argument from the point of view of mitigating or abrogating everybody's right to free speech and giving in to incipient latent or actual bullying/threats.car said:
Maybe they'll all end up in Dalymount Park boosting our bar coffers like when all the Linfield fans did likewise last time they played down here.
Re: LOVE march
They are from the northern part of Ireland. Not everyone recognises the partition of the island. And neither does the State.
Personally, I think they're very welcome. March away, lads. I think they will be largely ignored, which will be quite a shock to them if it happens.
ronan_d_john said:
They are from the northern part of Ireland. Not everyone recognises the partition of the island. And neither does the State.
Personally, I think they're very welcome. March away, lads. I think they will be largely ignored, which will be quite a shock to them if it happens.
Re: LOVE march
Wrong. The state and a majority of its citizens (as evidenced by the changes to articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution a while back) do indeed recognise partition:extopia said:
Re: LOVE march
I really believe that's a matter of interpretation.
Article 2
It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.
I really believe that's a matter of interpretation.
Article 2
It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.
Re: LOVE march
Not really - article 3 is quite clear in recognising the authority of two juristictions on the island of Ireland: our own and the UK. Note the specific restriction of powers of the state to a subset of the island and recognition of the existence of dual juristictions of the whole island. Article 3 merely extends citizenship to some people outside of the juristiction. It does nothing to claim juristiction over the whole island or contradict the clear recognition of the legitimacy of the UK government of Northern Ireland. Sorry if that disappoints anybody but that's what the majority voted for as part of the Belfast Agreement related constitutional changes.
Not really - article 3 is quite clear in recognising the authority of two juristictions on the island of Ireland: our own and the UK. Note the specific restriction of powers of the state to a subset of the island and recognition of the existence of dual juristictions of the whole island. Article 3 merely extends citizenship to some people outside of the juristiction. It does nothing to claim juristiction over the whole island or contradict the clear recognition of the legitimacy of the UK government of Northern Ireland. Sorry if that disappoints anybody but that's what the majority voted for as part of the Belfast Agreement related constitutional changes.
Re: LOVE march
No. Where did I say that?
I'm of the opinion that people born in Ireland (either jurisdiction) are Irish. I do not regard Irish people as foreigners, even if they do not have a passport.
To get back to the original question, as far as I'm concerned the lads in the bowler hats are welcome to come down and introduce us to some of their traditions, which are of course all part of the weave of Irish cultural activity.
Incidentally, before someone goes on about northern protestants/unionists being of Scottish extraction, did you know that Scotland is derived from the Latin word Scotus, meaning.... "Irishman."
No. Where did I say that?
I'm of the opinion that people born in Ireland (either jurisdiction) are Irish. I do not regard Irish people as foreigners, even if they do not have a passport.
To get back to the original question, as far as I'm concerned the lads in the bowler hats are welcome to come down and introduce us to some of their traditions, which are of course all part of the weave of Irish cultural activity.
Incidentally, before someone goes on about northern protestants/unionists being of Scottish extraction, did you know that Scotland is derived from the Latin word Scotus, meaning.... "Irishman."
Re: LOVE march
Many inhabitants of NI don't consider themselves Irish (in the sense that they belong to the "Irish Nation" mentioned above) and reject any attribution of such an interpretation of Irishness to them.extopia said:
Personally I'm neutral on it and neither welcome nor shun them. It makes no odds to me either way. Unless they head to Dalyer for a pint afterwards where I would welcome them.
Re: LOVE march
I'm Irish because I was born in the Republic of Ireland. Presumably the marchers paying us a visit next Sunday are Northern Irish and also citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - for the foreseeable future. They're not English, Scottish or Welsh or have I got it wrong?
I'm Irish and stuck with it - whether I like it or not.
I'm Irish because I was born in the Republic of Ireland. Presumably the marchers paying us a visit next Sunday are Northern Irish
and also citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - for the foreseeable future. They're not English, Scottish or Welsh or have I got it wrong? I'm Irish and stuck with it - whether I like it or not.
Re: LOVE march
I think the only reason they're coming here is because they know theres always going to be some (probably a small minority) who will cause them grief and with a bit of luck it'll end in violence that'll be all over the media. This way they can strengthen their position up in the 6 counties by going back and preaching that 'those fenians' down south hate us and would never allow us to be a proper part of a United Ireland, we'd always be an oppressed minority to them etc!
Unfortunately, I think they'll get their wishes as theres a small minority of numbskulls everywhere and Ive a feeling RSF and other dissident groups will let their feelings show in more than a peaceful protest.
I think the only reason they're coming here is because they know theres always going to be some (probably a small minority) who will cause them grief and with a bit of luck it'll end in violence that'll be all over the media. This way they can strengthen their position up in the 6 counties by going back and preaching that 'those fenians' down south hate us and would never allow us to be a proper part of a United Ireland, we'd always be an oppressed minority to them etc!
Unfortunately, I think they'll get their wishes as theres a small minority of numbskulls everywhere and Ive a feeling RSF and other dissident groups will let their feelings show in more than a peaceful protest.