losttheplot
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Or you could say he summed up the issues with 'entrenched psychological traits' rather than EVs.
Or you could say he summed up the issues with 'entrenched psychological traits' rather than EVs.Excellent post. You sum up the main issues at the moment with EVs - range and price. Like you, I would love if these didn't exist, but they do, and no amount of pooh-poohing from the EV zealots will change that. What will change it is:
1. when EVs drop in price to ICE levels and below
2. when range increases to a reliable 500km or so and you don't need an app to plan a journey.
These things should happen in the next 5 years or so. When they do, EVs will become a no-brainer. Just like LED lightbulbs have seen off CFLs and incandescent. Until then, it is very hard to make the economics work, yet alone accept the hassle and grief of frequent and problematic recharging.
Hmmm. I like getting good value for money and I like products that are flexible, versatile and meet all my needs. If that be your idea of "entrenched psychological traits" then I will happily plead guilty as charged.Or you could say he summed up the issues with 'entrenched psychological traits' rather than EVs.
I think it all has to be looked at case by case. If an EV doesn't meet your needs then it doesn't.Hmmm. I like getting good value for money and I like products that are flexible, versatile and meet all my needs. If that be your idea of "entrenched psychological traits" then I will happily plead guilty as charged.
On the other hand, my idea of "entrenched psychological traits" would include a stubborn refusal to realise that paying a 50% price premium for a product with restricted functionality might not really be a good idea. I think the appropriate psychological term is denial.
It's hardly "hype" if it's a real issue. The price premium is a fact. Limited range is a fact. Sure, there are people who rarely if ever venture beyond their EV's range, and for those it's ideal. Their fuel cost savings may even cancel out the EV price premium in certain circumstances. If you have, say, a 150km daily commute, then you're hitting the EV sweet spot in terms of maximizing fuel savings. If your mileage is very low, then the cost savings won't compensate you for the increased capital cost, and likely enhanced depreciation as EV technology improves in capacity and drops in price. And if you regularly exceed the EV range, well, you've got all the problems of finding working charge points and the lack of flexibility and time penalties that go with the current generation of EVs.I think it all has to be looked at case by case. If an EV doesn't meet your needs then it doesn't.
There are some people who's needs it would meet but they're put off by the hype about range etc.
I have never queued at a charger and the fast charge takes 30-45 min depending on how much you need, so your fear is a little misplaced.Fair point. I think I'm subject to a lot of behavioral psychology habits also which is setting the bar too high for what's available right now in the EV market, I believe in time it will be a no-brainer to switch to an EV.
But for now, my entrenched psychological traits are saying that my driving enjoyment will be diminished in a EV because:
1) I cannot find a comparable EV to replace my diesel Mazda 6 (comparable in price, driving enjoyment and feel good factor)
2) I'm reluctant to changing my driving style to plan my longer journeys, even if they only make up 5-10% of my trips
3) For those 5-10% of trips, I shudder at the thought of queuing for x minutes to sit and charge for 1 - 2 hours
It may not sound like it but I really want to buy an EV, I just want it on my terms. I'm at that stage where I'm thinking of downsizing the house and just realised that the smaller terrace houses and apartments that we've talked about are not suitable for home charging. So many aspects to be aware of to ensure the best decision. It's great to have this discussion with like-minded and non-like-minded (?) people, thanks Askaboutmoney.
If you are buying a new car it’s expensive, a new ev will cost less over its life than the equivalent new ice in a lot of cases.It's hardly "hype" if it's a real issue. The price premium is a fact. Limited range is a fact. Sure, there are people who rarely if ever venture beyond their EV's range, and for those it's ideal. Their fuel cost savings may even cancel out the EV price premium in certain circumstances. If you have, say, a 150km daily commute, then you're hitting the EV sweet spot in terms of maximizing fuel savings. If your mileage is very low, then the cost savings won't compensate you for the increased capital cost, and likely enhanced depreciation as EV technology improves in capacity and drops in price. And if you regularly exceed the EV range, well, you've got all the problems of finding working charge points and the lack of flexibility and time penalties that go with the current generation of EVs.
I'm just applying standard askaboutmoney principles of cost benefit analysis before committing to a large capital cost! Ignoring this because of a desire for sustainability or whatever may well induce a warm virtuous glow but, don't kid yourself, it'll be a hell of an expensive glow!
I'm all ears! Do you have a reference for that? I've seen lots of ads/publicity blurbs for EVs that major on vague concepts like sustainability, environmental friendliness and nice design. Know what I haven't seen? A detailed side by side comparison of all costs over a vehicle's lifespan. And such comparisons as I have seen tend to ignore the time value of money by equating increased capital cost today with reduced running costs in later years, and forgetting to include the cost of capital - either real cost or opportunity cost.If you are buying a new car it’s expensive, a new ev will cost less over its life than the equivalent new ice in a lot of cases.
No, but someone who insists that range anxiety is an illusion is exhibiting zealot like tendencies! I'll believe that range anxiety is over when EV owners stop swapping tips and stories about how to plan their journeys around charging points.Oh and someone with real world experience who challenges your misconceptions isn’t a zealot.
Agreed on the enjoyment performance and feel good factor - I have no reservations there. Still have an issue with the 30-45 minutes charging time and my experience with queuing is a little different and my expectation is that the infrastructure development will lag the sales of EV's so my expectation is that this will get worse.I have never queued at a charger and the fast charge takes 30-45 min depending on how much you need, so your fear is a little misplaced.
As for finding an ev that compares to your Mazda 6 price might be an issue but enjoyment performance and feel good factor won’t be an issue in comparison to a diesel.
It's more the case that EVs haven't evolved to the point where they're ready for me!@Baby boomer I think you've convinced us all that you're not ready for an EV yet
Fair enough. What annoys me though are the evangelicals who insist that we ALL need to go electric ASAP.and that's your decision and suits your needs.
And so it should! As any new vehicle should be.I've had an EV for 3 years and it's been trouble free.
Or for the many people who regularly make long journeys and don't fancy enforced sojourns in filling station forecourts.I know others the same. I also know people who'd forget to put shoes on leaving the house, an EV would be a disaster for them.
My point exactly. When EVs meet my needs at a competitive price, happy days, I'm on board! Until then, people telling me range anxiety isn't real aren't really impressing.The choice is down to an individual's needs.
No one on this thread thinks that. As has been pointed out to you before.No, but someone who insists that range anxiety is an illusion is exhibiting zealot like tendencies!
Again, no one on this thread.What annoys me though are the evangelicals who insist that we ALL need to go electric ASAP.
I'm all ears! Do you have a reference for that? I've seen lots of ads/publicity blurbs for EVs that major on vague concepts like sustainability, environmental friendliness and nice design. Know what I haven't seen? A detailed side by side comparison of all costs over a vehicle's lifespan. And such comparisons as I have seen tend to ignore the time value of money by equating increased capital cost today with reduced running costs in later years, and forgetting to include the cost of capital - either real cost or opportunity cost.
No, but someone who insists that range anxiety is an illusion is exhibiting zealot like tendencies! I'll believe that range anxiety is over when EV owners stop swapping tips and stories about how to plan their journeys around charging points.
As an owner of an ice car you will spend far more time in a forecourt than I will.It's more the case that EVs haven't evolved to the point where they're ready for me!
Fair enough. What annoys me though are the evangelicals who insist that we ALL need to go electric ASAP.
And so it should! As any new vehicle should be.
Or for the many people who regularly make long journeys and don't fancy enforced sojourns in filling station forecourts.
My point exactly. When EVs meet my needs at a competitive price, happy days, I'm on board! Until then, people telling me range anxiety isn't real aren't really impressing.
That's an apples V oranges comparison! If I were the owner of an EV I would spend vastly more time in forecourts than I do now with my ICE. That's because I do a lot of long distance driving.As an owner of an ice car you will spend far more time in a forecourt than I will.
Not exactly a sophisticated piece of work, I have to say. It makes the basic error of ignoring the time value of money, equating a Euro spent in year 1 with a Euro saved in year 10. No allowance for cost of capital at all. Assumes ALL EV charging is done at the night rate cost of 9.5c, including VAT, per kWh!SEAI Car Comparison
Want to know the cost of running an electric car? Compare the range of electric vehicles in Ireland to see how much you can save in costs and emissions.www.seai.ie
Apparently that's quite common in certain parts of the country!!Imagine having your own diesel pump at home that cost about 1/4 the price of filling station diesel. Most wouldn't forget to refuel at home.
SEAI Car Comparison
Want to know the cost of running an electric car? Compare the range of electric vehicles in Ireland to see how much you can save in costs and emissions.www.seai.ie
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