Sophrosyne
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Unsurprisingly, after the poor performance in the Euro and council elections, both the leader and deputy leader of the Green Party, Eamon Ryan and Catherine Martin have stepped down.
European Parliament Elections
- Thread starter cremeegg
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That’s a shameful comment on Eamon Ryan who undertook the leadership of the Green Party in 2011 when they were in a much worse position.
He rebuilt the Green Party into a force in the Dáil and delivered much of the party’s objectives in coalition
When the going was tough for Green politics in this country Ryan stepped up.
I won’t miss Mr Ryan or anyone else in the so called Green Party. When Pat-the-Taxpayer paid all that could be paid Mr Ryan charged us more again and again. My conscience wouldn’t allow me even to think voting green.
Our green thinking people are naive at best regarding global warming etc. Until China and Russia stop burning fossil fuels we might as well sing Dixie as Ireland’s contributions to anything green doesn’t matter and never did. Recycling plastic bottles and some cans are nothing less than another tax. Don’t get me going on the price of fuel. Goodbye Mr Ryan, enjoy your cycling.
Our green thinking people are naive at best regarding global warming etc. Until China and Russia stop burning fossil fuels we might as well sing Dixie as Ireland’s contributions to anything green doesn’t matter and never did. Recycling plastic bottles and some cans are nothing less than another tax. Don’t get me going on the price of fuel. Goodbye Mr Ryan, enjoy your cycling.
So your view is that we, as one of the richest countries in the world, shouldn't change our behaviour until poorer countries find ways of making the things we buy from them in a more environmentally friendly way because we are smaller than them. Is that correct?
I pay around 20% of my taxes towards the sick care system (incorrectly called the healthcare system). Another 20 odd percent goes towards welfare payments.
The sick care costs are largely due to people not looking after themselves (not exercising, smoking, being fat, having a bad diet etc) and those people expect me and others like me to pay for their bad decisions, stupidity and laziness.
A large proportion of the welfare payments are given to people who are gaming the housing system, gaming the lone parents supports, gaming the illness benefits system, gaming the carers allowance supports and drawing pensions and supports from the State in old age because they were too stupid, lazy or ignorant to make sufficient provisions for their own old age.
In the context of the tens of thousands I pay towards those two overlapping groups each year the very small taxes I pay to help reduce the rate of acceleration of climate change are of no consequence to me.
Given that Climate Change is by far the biggest issue facing the planet (we're part of the planet) in the coming decades I think we should be doing far more.
Sophrosyne
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What is “shameful” about it?
The collapse of the Green Party vote is a fact.
Environmental policies are extremely important, hence my questions as to why the media was so engaged with the reasons SF did not live up to polling expectations and had such little coverage of the performance of the GP in the locals and Euros.
It is vital that the agricultural sector buys into emission targets and other environmental policies, but the GP has never really brought them along.
In fact, the party has fractured on many issues since the previous election.
I agree with @Leper in that for many of our less affluent population, green is unaffordable, even where they embrace green principles. They have so many other money worries that climate change necessarily takes a back seat. No amount of sermonising or arbitrary judgementalism will make them afford what they cannot afford.
Green party representation, particularly in the EU parliament, is now essential in order to influence matters such as State Aid Rules for Climate, Environmental Protection and Energy.
We need more GP representatives in that regard, but the party's current implementation policies in Ireland are just not appealing enough to the majority of the electorate. The Party Leader and Deputy Leader have to take some responsibility for that.
Though as long as you are reasonably fit you can attack the disabled reasonably easily.
Those pesky Russians and Chinese, coming over here and polluting our air and dumping their plastic waste in our water and food supply. We produce more plastic waste per capita than either of them, but why should we change our ways when there are so many more of them???
Seriously though, anyone expecting a significant shift in environmental policies based on the local election drop from 6% to 3.5% of Green Party first preferences is deluded.
It’s easy to come on this forum and dictate what others should do. The country is full of such speak-from-on-high, self opinionated chancers who have an opinion on everything and do nothing. Until I see cloth nappies back in general use, what I think of so called Green people remains as is. I wonder when we will see cloth nappies flying like flags again. So any takers for cloth nappies? Show of hands please and stop looking at your shoes.
I'm probably (hopefully) 30 years away from needing nappies but I fully intent on insisting that my carer (who's probably currently a young would-be asylum seeker on their way here for a "better life") uses them on me.
As for the rest, all I can say is that you sir an an excellent judge of character and reader of men but you also, unfortunately, remain a needlessly excessive burden on the environment.
Sophrosyne
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It is not about fundamental policy change but the failure to win hearts and minds.
Having a laudable manifesto - and it is laudable - for the EU Parliament is meaningless if you have no Green MEPs for the next five years to influence EU policy making.
Ireland's environmental interest will be served by the lukewarm to the downright climate deniers.
What will the climate situation be like 5 years from now?
Having a laudable manifesto - and it is laudable - for the EU Parliament is meaningless if you have no Green MEPs for the next five years to influence EU policy making.
Ireland's environmental interest will be served by the lukewarm to the downright climate deniers.
What will the climate situation be like 5 years from now?
I agree.
All of our improvements in domestic and industrial water supply and sewage treatment and been offset by a large increase in pollution from farming. There are over 7.3 million cows and 5.5 million sheep in Ireland. That's a lot of manure but the farmers do create a fair bit of it themselves with their guff about being custodians of the land.
Perhaps because the environmental impact isn't as great as you imagine? Switching disposables for cloth only reduce carbon emissions by 25% as cotton has greater manufacturing impacts and washing consumes energy and detergents. DARPA produce a study every few years, updating to account for current manufacturing and laundry trends. The 2023 version shows that over the typical 2.5 years a child will be in nappies, the difference over those 2 years is the equivalent of driving just 600km.
is it the biggest threat though, what about what Putin is doing in Ukraine, all the destruction all the CO2 and noxious substances being released, the dams being destroyed and the land flooded releasing more pollution into black sea. Also the nuclear proliferation and the nuclear threats being waved around by Putin and his buddies Kim and Khamenei (iran). Surely a nuclear war is the biggest threat now
Is it all linked though? Is part of his motivation driven by concerns for food security and the impact climate change is having on food production around the world?
No, the economic and political impact of climate change will happen, is happening. Wars, instability, massive levels of population movement. That in turn makes all the other bad stuff more likely.
Sophrosyne
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But is it?
I can’t see Putin dropping a nuclear bomb in Ukraine, given its proximity to Russia.
Any of players you mention that uses nuclear weapons runs the risk of their own country being nuked in retaliation.
but its not just Putin, also Kim and Iran, and the risk is still very high with Putin if he starts losing badly in Ukraine, thats the primary reason why the west has been holding back supplying weapons to Ukraine, they are trying to gauge Putin reaction, when Putin went in for total invasion that was an irrational and emotional decision, therefore he still could make another irrational and catastrophic decision driven by ego and emotion. That is the biggest risk, nuclear proliferation and one mad guy actually uses them. The risk of nuclear war is now at its highest level since the cuban missile crises with Putin visit to N Korea only escalating that risk
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It's way higher than the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Russians didn't actually have the technology to launch a large scale strike back then. It was all a bluff. Now they do. So do China and they are expanding their ICBM capacity at an alarming rate.
Iran and North Korea don't have the delivery systems or the volumes.
But don't forget India and Pakistan; they have plenty of Nukes as well and there's a Hindu Nationalist government in India and massive instability on Pakistan.
Climate change is still a bigger issue though as it amplifies all of the above factors and creates an almost unimaginable number of others. Think hundreds of millions or even billions of climate migrants/refugees both within countries and between countries. Climate change is a major contributor to the 2023 Ethiopian Civil War that killed between 200,00 and 600,000 people and displaced well over a million (you know the one that all those students protested about and held sit-ins and picketed embassies over? No? oh yea, there were no Jews involved so they didn't care).