Dublin bus routes privatised.

Delboy said:
And if your paying tax at the higher rate, you'll save half the cost of that ticket. So €1,110 is the true cost.
That 2,180 also includes commuter rail which you forgot to mention!
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Commuter rail - of course! The saviour of the public transport commuter in Dublin. o_O My apologies for lumping it in with the DART services.

Taxsaver is only available for you if your company signs up for it. Not all do. And of course this is of great help for someone on a minimum wage (or close to it). The less you earn, the more you pay for your public transport ticket. There's a great idea right there.

Apart from that, € 1,110 is still about 20% more expensive than Paris. Or more than three times as expensive as Vienna.
 
MrEarl said:
It would take a hell of a lot of bus journeys to cover the cost of my annual road tax for my car - so I don't think you are correct about anyone subsidising me. Actually, I would suggest that indirectly, I am subsidising them, when you consider the cost of running my car.

Bring in a public transport system that is reliable, efficient, takes me where I want to go and when and I'd be happy to use it more. As things stand, I use the bus when it suits, but it doesn't always suit. Unlike some of the good people in South Dublin, I don't have the option of a Luas and Dart within minutes of my house, so perhaps you might like to consider that myself (and others who don't have those services nearby) are actually subsidising those individuals. Then there's the cyclists, that pay nothing and yet benefit from the roads, cycle lanes, traffic control and safety measures (which half of them sadly ignore !) etc. :)
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Very few cyclists don't also have a car.
 
newirishman said:
Apart from that, € 1,110 is still about 20% more expensive than Paris. Or more than three times as expensive as Vienna.
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Yeah, but you not comparing like with like, I mean, those in Paris and Vienna must be green with envy when they see the transport systems we have in place!
 
just in relation to subvention, you couldn't remove subvention for buses solely without removing it for trains. The subsidisation for trains is much more per journey than buses. Can anyone provide an example of a functioning city where there is no subsidy of public transport?
 
dereko1969 said:
just in relation to subvention, you couldn't remove subvention for buses solely without removing it for trains. The subsidisation for trains is much more per journey than buses. Can anyone provide an example of a functioning city where there is no subsidy of public transport?
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There is a good argument for buses, both Dublin Bus and regional buses. There may be an argument for a subsidy (though to suggest that those who avail of that subsidised bus service are somehow subsidising motorists is laughable) but there is absolutely no argument for running any trains in this country.
 
dereko1969 said:
Very few cyclists don't also have a car.
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Whether they do or do not is completely irrelevant.

If someone has a car and a motorbike, they pay road tax for both. If someone has a car and a van, they pay road tax for both. Same principal - if you use the road network and it's related resources, then you need to pay for the use of it just like everyone else :)

If anything, those purchasing bicycles should be made pay a premium given the amount of financial resources the city of Dublin is pumping into bicycle lanes, special markings on the roads etc. and that's before you consider the impact on the wider economy with slowing other modes of transport down across the city to facilitate cyclists (although I am prepared to offset that in general terms, against the benefits to the environment, for the purpose of this conversation :))
 
:confused::confused::confused:
Delboy said:
I know I shouldn't ask but I can't resist :rolleyes:...why is that?
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We once had the 2nd best train system in the world it is called shortsighted planning and use of resources and tunnel vision all rolled into one,:confused::confused::confused:
 
MrEarl said:
If someone has a car and a motorbike, they pay road tax for both.
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They don't, they pay motor tax which is levied based on engine capacity or CO2 output. This tax goes to the Local Government Fund, only a fraction of which goes towards roads infrastructure.

MrEarl said:
consider the impact on the wider economy with slowing other modes of transport down across the city to facilitate cyclists
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The more cyclists that are present on a route, the faster the lower volume of cars moves at. Take all those cyclists off their bikes and many of them end up in private cars causing further gridlock.
 
2015 Motor tax = 1.12 bn, paid into Local Government Fund

Regional and Local roads grants from the LGF = 356m

NB: central govt exp on national roads is separate
 
Delboy said:
I know I shouldn't ask but I can't resist :rolleyes:...why is that?
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Here's an old ERSI report but it's a good one.
One of the real doozies is that Irish Rail spent €1.2 billion to reduce rail fatalities. The average fatality rate was 8 per decade so the cost per life saved is €150 million, assuming that it was 100% successful.
The upgrade of the Sligo-Cork line would have revenues of €13.4 million but would incur capital costs of €572 million and an annual operating cost of €35.3 million in excess of its revenues.
Basically rail is massively expensive and an utter waste of money as a much cheaper alternative service can be provided;
The Dublin-Galway route was served by one bus a day in each direction, via Mullingar (which is not the most direct route), in 1980 under monopoly. By the summer of 2001, following the development of the route by independent operators, opposed by both CIE and the regulating department, there were 21 buses a day, on the direct route, in each direction. The operators were Bus Éireann, owned by CIE, Nestors, Burkes, and so-called auxiliaries, or independents not licensed by the Department of Transport but subcontracted by CIE. The SRR examines the expenditure of €238 million on the Dublin-Galway railway line by 2002 in order to “Stay in the Game” and a further €160 million in a “Going for Growth” scenario. However, the SRR does not deal with the optimum market share of traffic on this route between the rail, bus and air modes.
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The ticket cost of a train journey only cover about half the cost of that train journey. In every case there is a cheaper option, usually including a privately operated bus which receives no subsidies.
 
Delboy said:
So no rail at all, including DART or commuter services into Dublin or Cork?
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or Belfast to Dublin will the train stop and turn back at the invisible border,I suppose we could rename it Belfast to EU 27 sounds good,
 
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Delboy said:
So no rail at all, including DART or commuter services into Dublin or Cork?
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From the NTA 2016 Report;
Subvention Per Passenger Journey € Route
< €1 Dart
€1 to €5
Kildare Suburban
Northern Suburban (Dublin – Dundalk)
Western Suburban (Dublin – Longford)
€5 to €10
Dublin - Galway
Cork Commuter
Dublin - Belfast
€10 to €20
Dublin - Waterford
Dublin - Tralee
Dublin - Limerick
Dublin - Sligo
Dublin - Cork
€20 to €30
Dublin - Rosslare
Dublin - Westport/Ballina
€44
Limerick - Galway
€362
Limerick Junction - Waterford
€552
Limerick - Ballybrophy

Dublin - Belfast; cost per passenger to the State between €5 and €10.
Dublin - Cork; cost per passenger to the State between €10 and €20.

There are excellent roads with non-subsidised Buses providing cheaper services on both routes. Is maintaining trains to provide the same service at higher prices to the consumer a good use of public money?
 
Take away DART and commuter services to Dublin....how many more buses would be required per hour on already congested roads to cater for the passenger numbers?
Or are you suggesting the rail lines be ripped up and replaced with tarmac for the buses only, which could work?
 
Delboy said:
Take away DART and commuter services to Dublin....how many more buses would be required per hour on already congested roads to cater for the passenger numbers?
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No, DART could and should be run without a loss.
Commuter train services can and should be run without making a loss.

Delboy said:
Or are you suggesting the rail lines be ripped up and replaced with tarmac for the buses only, which could work?
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Irish Rail handles 42 million passenger journeys a year and get nearly 5 times that in State subsidies. That is excluding funding for infrastructure.
There is no economic case for an intercity rail service in this country.
 
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