DSP should be giving accurate pension figures before awarding a persons contributory pension.

[Dr Strangelove]

a handful of skilled IT folk in the Department

Are you sure there’s even a handful?

 

[S class]

What frustrates me is that all the rules around eligibility for State Contributory Pension, while complicated, are black-and-white mathematical rules

They are not all mathematical. There are a lot of ifs, and buts.
For instance contributions are not counted for the year of pension application under the averaging method, but if they are required to bring the applicant to the 520 minimum full rate contributions level they are counted. But there is no clarity if these extra contributions will also be included into the averaging calculation.

I have asked a series of questions relating to this and all the answers are vague.
In mathematics everything is precise. In Prsi land lots of things are loosely worded and it is practically impossible to get a precise answer as to how they operate.

Here is an example of a vague answer to a direct question.

Question.
If after applying can a person cancel their pension application if the calculated pension is not at the level they were expecting ?

Answer.
A pension cannot be deferred once it goes into payment.

No explanation as to what 'goes into payment' actually means.
Is it when the first payment is received into the applicants bank account.
Is it when the pension to be paid is set up on DSPs computer.
Is it when DSPs pensions electronic payment is set up to the applicants bank account.
Is it when the post office payment arrangement is set up.
Does this happen before, after or when the decision letter is dated.
Or is it something else.

I am no wiser after reading their answer.

This is just one of several questions I asked by email a few days ago.
Each vague answer leaves me in the same situation as before I asked the questions.

Not certain what the final pension calculation will be and not certain if the pension can be cancelled after the decision letter is sent out.

 

[Dave Vanian]

They are not all mathematical. There are a lot of ifs, and buts.
For instance contributions are not counted for the year of pension application under the averaging method, but if they are required to bring the applicant to the 520 minimum full rate contributions level they are counted. But there is no clarity if these extra contributions will also be included into the averaging calculation.

I have asked a series of questions relating to this and all the answers are vague.
In mathematics everything is precise. In Prsi land lots of things are loosely worded and it is practically impossible to get a precise answer as to how they operate.

Here is an example of a vague answer to a direct question.

Question.
If after applying can a person cancel their pension application if the calculated pension is not at the level they were expecting ?

Answer.
A pension cannot be deferred once it goes into payment.

No explanation as to what 'goes into payment' actually means.
Is it when the first payment is received into the applicants bank account.
Is it when the pension to be paid is set up on DSPs computer.
Is it when DSPs pensions electronic payment is set up to the applicants bank account.
Is it when the post office payment arrangement is set up.
Does this happen before, after or when the decision letter is dated.
Or is it something else.

I am no wiser after reading their answer.

This is just one of several questions I asked by email a few days ago.
Each vague answer leaves me in the same situation as before I asked the questions.

Not certain what the final pension calculation will be and not certain if the pension can be cancelled after the decision letter is sent out.

That is indeed an awful way to run things for what is a very valuable and important benefit for most people.

I wonder would the Ombudsman - not the FSPO but Ger Deering (https://www.ombudsman.ie/making-a-complaint/who-we-can-investigate/) be able to intervene if a person was badly impacted by an irreversible decision along the lines of what you've posted above.

Of course it shouldn't have to go that far.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

I wonder would the Ombudsman - not the FSPO but Ger Deering (https://www.ombudsman.ie/making-a-complaint/who-we-can-investigate/) be able to intervene if a person was badly impacted by an irreversible decision along the lines of what you've posted above.

They would, indeed. But it shouldn’t have to come to that.

In practice I doubt DSP would leave anyone worse off but it would be like pulling teeth.

 

[S class]

It's not entirely irreversible.
There is an error in my first post.
I have found out that a person can in fact cancel their pension if they want to.
The catch is that it can only be cancelled before any pension payments are acepted.

I would therefore recommend that anybody who is unsure what their pension calculation will be should opt for collecting their pension at their local post office. This way they have full controll regarding not accepting a pension payment.

 

[Des Pondent]

Might be of interest, I will be 66 in March 2025, so applied for my state contributory pension in September 2024.

This week, 6 weeks after applying, I got my decision letter.

I have been awarded the maximum contributory state pension with first payment to be in my account in March 2025.

I have no reason to appeal the decision but if I did want the decision reviewed or wanted to appeal, all was explained with timelines in the decision letter.

As the first payment is not until March 2025, there is also plenty of time to cancel my application, if I wanted to.

For me anyway, as a fairly straightforward case, it could not have been easier.

I had an equally good experience with the 65 year old payment. I applied online on my 65th birthday, got my decision letter 2 days later, and the first payment was in my account 7 days after applying.

All very efficient.

 

[Purple07]

I think an online calculator or view of your current situation is long overdue. I agree the calculations for average TCA during the next ten years from 2025 seem clear, but it’s those rules that could be applied that muddy the waters. Something that allowed you to adjust retirement age, calculated the average and TCA amounts would help to bring clarity.

 

[OutsideTheBox]

Might be of interest, I will be 66 in March 2025, so applied for my state contributory pension in September 2024.

This week, 6 weeks after applying, I got my decision letter.

I have been awarded the maximum contributory state pension with first payment to be in my account in March 2025.

I have no reason to appeal the decision but if I did want the decision reviewed or wanted to appeal, all was explained with timelines in the decision letter.

As the first payment is not until March 2025, there is also plenty of time to cancel my application, if I wanted to.

For me anyway, as a fairly straightforward case, it could not have been easier.

I had an equally good experience with the 65 year old payment. I applied online on my 65th birthday, got my decision letter 2 days later, and the first payment was in my account 7 days after applying.

All very efficient.

 

[Purple07]

Thank you for the info.

 

[Meath Lady]

Delighted to hear that this office have improved.
I applied for my coap on 20th Feb 2023 and was pension age on 8th August 2023.

I received my reply with pension details on 28th July 2023 over 5 months later. I accept all appeal details were enclosed but no details of how pension was calculated.
As I was not entitled to a full pension but was very close to the next bracket I had numerous queries.
These were responded to quickly but one particular matter was not.
I repeatedly queried the homemakers scheme and years disregard and credits as I was left 38 credits short.
Following 9 further emails they eventually agreed they had made an error at which stage I was already gone to appeal as recommended by DSP.

Appeal took a full 11 months which is also ridiculous.
As another error had been made in their calculation, (one which I hadn't noticed) and balanced out the 38 credits I was left short , my award didn't change but the delay is incomprehensible.