DSP should be giving accurate pension figures before awarding a persons contributory pension.

[Dr Strangelove]

a handful of skilled IT folk in the Department

Are you sure there’s even a handful?

 

[S class]

What frustrates me is that all the rules around eligibility for State Contributory Pension, while complicated, are black-and-white mathematical rules

They are not all mathematical. There are a lot of ifs, and buts.
For instance contributions are not counted for the year of pension application under the averaging method, but if they are required to bring the applicant to the 520 minimum full rate contributions level they are counted. But there is no clarity if these extra contributions will also be included into the averaging calculation.

I have asked a series of questions relating to this and all the answers are vague.
In mathematics everything is precise. In Prsi land lots of things are loosely worded and it is practically impossible to get a precise answer as to how they operate.

Here is an example of a vague answer to a direct question.

Question.
If after applying can a person cancel their pension application if the calculated pension is not at the level they were expecting ?

Answer.
A pension cannot be deferred once it goes into payment.

No explanation as to what 'goes into payment' actually means.
Is it when the first payment is received into the applicants bank account.
Is it when the pension to be paid is set up on DSPs computer.
Is it when DSPs pensions electronic payment is set up to the applicants bank account.
Is it when the post office payment arrangement is set up.
Does this happen before, after or when the decision letter is dated.
Or is it something else.

I am no wiser after reading their answer.

This is just one of several questions I asked by email a few days ago.
Each vague answer leaves me in the same situation as before I asked the questions.

Not certain what the final pension calculation will be and not certain if the pension can be cancelled after the decision letter is sent out.

 

[Dave Vanian]

They are not all mathematical. There are a lot of ifs, and buts.
For instance contributions are not counted for the year of pension application under the averaging method, but if they are required to bring the applicant to the 520 minimum full rate contributions level they are counted. But there is no clarity if these extra contributions will also be included into the averaging calculation.

I have asked a series of questions relating to this and all the answers are vague.
In mathematics everything is precise. In Prsi land lots of things are loosely worded and it is practically impossible to get a precise answer as to how they operate.

Here is an example of a vague answer to a direct question.

Question.
If after applying can a person cancel their pension application if the calculated pension is not at the level they were expecting ?

Answer.
A pension cannot be deferred once it goes into payment.

No explanation as to what 'goes into payment' actually means.
Is it when the first payment is received into the applicants bank account.
Is it when the pension to be paid is set up on DSPs computer.
Is it when DSPs pensions electronic payment is set up to the applicants bank account.
Is it when the post office payment arrangement is set up.
Does this happen before, after or when the decision letter is dated.
Or is it something else.

I am no wiser after reading their answer.

This is just one of several questions I asked by email a few days ago.
Each vague answer leaves me in the same situation as before I asked the questions.

Not certain what the final pension calculation will be and not certain if the pension can be cancelled after the decision letter is sent out.

That is indeed an awful way to run things for what is a very valuable and important benefit for most people.

I wonder would the Ombudsman - not the FSPO but Ger Deering (https://www.ombudsman.ie/making-a-complaint/who-we-can-investigate/) be able to intervene if a person was badly impacted by an irreversible decision along the lines of what you've posted above.

Of course it shouldn't have to go that far.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

I wonder would the Ombudsman - not the FSPO but Ger Deering (https://www.ombudsman.ie/making-a-complaint/who-we-can-investigate/) be able to intervene if a person was badly impacted by an irreversible decision along the lines of what you've posted above.

They would, indeed. But it shouldn’t have to come to that.

In practice I doubt DSP would leave anyone worse off but it would be like pulling teeth.

 

[S class]

It's not entirely irreversible.
There is an error in my first post.
I have found out that a person can in fact cancel their pension if they want to.
The catch is that it can only be cancelled before any pension payments are acepted.

I would therefore recommend that anybody who is unsure what their pension calculation will be should opt for collecting their pension at their local post office. This way they have full controll regarding not accepting a pension payment.