yep I got it written along with a breakdown.
Despondent about redundancy package
- Thread starter Futureguy
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yep I got it written along with a breakdown.
and put all the arguments in there.
2)do they need you do something in work over next few weeks/months?
3) could you ask for anything else outplacement /garden leave/ retraining ?
fyi the legal route can be stressful.
Ceist Beag
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On what basis are they making you redundant now? As you are working from home it cannot be on the basis of rental costs. Is anyone else in the company performing a similar role to yours? If I were you I would certainly look for some expert advice on the matter and not take this lying down. The important thing would be to do as much homework before you go back to them - equip yourself as best you can in order to best argue your case.
I am sorry but there is not much you can do. You have lost your position of strength if they don't need you to carry out any business functions anymore. I was in a similar situation to yourself but I insisted on negotiating my redundancy package at the same time as everyone else and as they needed me for the winding up of the business, I negotiated a golden handcuff in the form of extra redundancy but only if I stayed until the end. Not much use to you I know. You have nothing to lose by making your feelings clear and don't be afraid to contact seniors in the multinational company to make them aware but legally, you don't really have a case. It stinks though and is bad form but to be fair to the company, there might be things outside their control. I know in banking for example, regulators in some Countries are clamping down on redundancy payments that might be deemed excessive. On the flip side, you could take a case and the company might settle to avoid PR but as they are leaving Ireland, they probably don't care......
At a minimum put your complaint in writing and send it to the most senior person responsible for the Irish business. Keep your tone firm, reasonable and say that you simply wish to have the same as others. Put in every argument that you can think of that is not made up.
I am the most senior person in Ireland. I have a letter sent to HR and am awaiting a response.
galwegian44
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My sympathies FutureGuy on the loss of your job.
I was in a similar position to yourself with a large US multi-national working from home as the last employee. Fortunately for me, I received the exact same package as my colleagues despite a difference of 12 years between the first offering and my own offer. In the interim I wondered if I might be fobbed off at the end with an inferior package but the HR person stated that the company had set a precedent in Ireland with the first offering.
I don't believe that legally they were obliged to offer me the same package (circumstances had changed) but there is nothing to be lost in arranging a meeting and stressing that a precedent was set with the first offer of 2 statutory + 4 weeks. Prepare well, be calm but forceful and see where you get. Talk to the most seniot HR person you can get access to.
Best of luck.
I was in a similar position to yourself with a large US multi-national working from home as the last employee. Fortunately for me, I received the exact same package as my colleagues despite a difference of 12 years between the first offering and my own offer. In the interim I wondered if I might be fobbed off at the end with an inferior package but the HR person stated that the company had set a precedent in Ireland with the first offering.
I don't believe that legally they were obliged to offer me the same package (circumstances had changed) but there is nothing to be lost in arranging a meeting and stressing that a precedent was set with the first offer of 2 statutory + 4 weeks. Prepare well, be calm but forceful and see where you get. Talk to the most seniot HR person you can get access to.
Best of luck.
thanks all for the comments. I took some professional advice and have clearly stated to them there is clear precedent with every redundancy package offered in Ireland.
They started the most recent meeting stating there are not negotiating and left the meeting stating they will discuss again with business. I dissected every argument for giving me the reduced package and they have no real answer. They are just doing their job.
I now play a waiting game. Whether they are fobbing me off or not, I don’t know but if I get an unfavourable response, I meet with one one the top solicitors in employment law who will lay out a clear path for me.
JoeRoberts
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If you are the only person to receive this level of payment then it is highly unusual.
Precedence is very strong in this area so if you take a case you have a v good chance of getting an equal package.
You would need to contact the WRC, I don't think a solicitor will be of much benefit considering the cost.
Advise the company that you intend following the WRC route to get the same package as the others - if they are winding up the company ( legally closing it ) they won't want this hanging over them.
See below for a taste of how the WRC views the reasonableness of ex-gratia settlements. There are industry norms that create precedence but in your unusual case your company is not following it's own norm. Something doesn't seem right.
aocsolicitors.ie
Precedence is very strong in this area so if you take a case you have a v good chance of getting an equal package.
You would need to contact the WRC, I don't think a solicitor will be of much benefit considering the cost.
Advise the company that you intend following the WRC route to get the same package as the others - if they are winding up the company ( legally closing it ) they won't want this hanging over them.
See below for a taste of how the WRC views the reasonableness of ex-gratia settlements. There are industry norms that create precedence but in your unusual case your company is not following it's own norm. Something doesn't seem right.
Anne O'Connell Solicitors, AOC Solicitors, Solicitors in Dublin, Specialists in Employment Law
Anne O'Connell Solicitors, AOC Solicitors, Solicitors in Dublin, Specialists in Employment Law
aocsolicitors.ie
If you are the only person to receive this level of payment then it is highly unusual.
Precedence is very strong in this area so if you take a case you have a v good chance of getting an equal package.
You would need to contact the WRC, I don't think a solicitor will be of much benefit considering the cost.
Advise the company that you intend following the WRC route to get the same package as the others - if they are winding up the company ( legally closing it ) they won't want this hanging over them.
See below for a taste of how the WRC views the reasonableness of ex-gratia settlements. There are industry norms that create precedence but in your unusual case your company is not following it's own norm. Something doesn't seem right.
Anne O'Connell Solicitors, AOC Solicitors, Solicitors in Dublin, Specialists in Employment Law
Anne O'Connell Solicitors, AOC Solicitors, Solicitors in Dublin, Specialists in Employment Law
It is hugely comforting to see that this is taken seriously. Out of over 400 workers in Ireland who have served the company across a number of areas, I am the only one getting a package that is not 2+4 weeks.
I have make my points very clear to the business and they have agreed to review the matter.
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I wouldn't threaten legals until you see what they come back with. We had situation a bit like yours. We sent a carefully worded email with the arguments and mentioned we had visited a top law firm (I had with the kids for half an hour costing €100 without opening a casefile) and just casully mentioned it in the email. Waited for their response and they consulted their lawyers and one of the top three accountancy firms and they paid us what we were looking for. But we were on stronger labour rights than you have. This is a very hard time for you and it's absolutely not to the firms credit that they would hang you out to dry when you hung on to suit them until the end. Your stress levels must be unbearable. I know others who fought too. Many do succeed. And don't forget, thing will look better later no matter how bad they look right now. Best of luck.
You've done some good too. Any employee reading this should take note to get the redudancy package deal in writing in the event they are asked to continue after everybody else has left. And never ever rely on oral conversations or assumptions based on what others got.
I think a lot of their case as to how they can treat me differently is that they were bought by an investment group in 2017 and changed name, that they are a new company, and since I am the first and only employee in Ireland to be made redundant in this new company, there is no precedence.
I did tell them very clearly last week, however, that a UK employee received the same package in 2019 as did all other in UK since 2007. I’m also sure that someone let go in another European office this year also got the same as their counterparts let go in the last decade in the same location. I’m also pretty certain that the fact they are a new company has no legal ground in this matter.
I did tell them very clearly last week, however, that a UK employee received the same package in 2019 as did all other in UK since 2007. I’m also sure that someone let go in another European office this year also got the same as their counterparts let go in the last decade in the same location. I’m also pretty certain that the fact they are a new company has no legal ground in this matter.
Be careful about the precedence argument. There is nothing to stop redundancy packages being changed. I work in financial services and have seen packages go from 2+6 to 2+4 to 2+2 in the same company. Pretty sure the packages in Aer Lingus got progressively worse over the years as well. Precedence is an argument but I wouldn't be relying on it from a legal point of view. I would state your case that you remained with the company until the end and missed out on other employment opportunities in the meantime on the assumption that you would get the same package as your colleagues.
dereko1969
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Would TUPE law not kick in there with regards to precedent on redundancy payments?
Hi all thanks for your advice.
I have agreed in principle on an improved offered, pending some small extras. While it is not the same as all Irish employees, it is better and suits us. I do get the sense that fighting for any more would be a waste of time and the excess won would be eaten up by tax and solicitors. It would also be hugely stressful for me at a time where I need to focus on retraining and getting a new job.
I have agreed in principle on an improved offered, pending some small extras. While it is not the same as all Irish employees, it is better and suits us. I do get the sense that fighting for any more would be a waste of time and the excess won would be eaten up by tax and solicitors. It would also be hugely stressful for me at a time where I need to focus on retraining and getting a new job.