Defaulting on mortgage

[dodo]

Thats what I did . Although I did not put the keys in the post I just emigrated . I have a new passport and I am untraceable . Let the bank put my property into NAMA .

What's good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander, When all this is sorted out people wont care, remember we have not a WW 3 or anything, it is just money no 6 million people dying just because they believe in a certain religion.
I understand why people do this, why spend the next 20 years worrying about paying back something when you can just walk away, many a rich man made himself bankrupt just to start a new business and this is accepted.
Best of luck to you fast eddie

 

[bluemac]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I understand both sides here.
But there is a good point in all of this we were all (most of us) conned.
I'm not saying you shouldn't pay back dept you need to take responsibility for your own actions.

Having said that the banks were conning each other selling packages of investments with dodgy properties from the US in them, They were selling on all the dept then buying it back and selling it on again just to get more money to lend to us all... which they were not doing responsible (not sure they have to?) It all goes bust because of what they have done to inflate the market. hence all the properties fall I think to what is now a realistic level for today (with no recession) 50% off.

(again you took the loan so you should feel like you have to repay it.)

But id say with a good lawyer.. we all could have a case to sue the banks... and reduce our outstanding mortgages to a level had the banks acted responsible would have actually been the price of we would have paid for the property at the time...

not sure this would help us all in the end though.

[/FONT]

 

[callybags]

Thats what I did . Although I did not put the keys in the post I just emigrated . I have a new passport and I am untraceable . Let the bank put my property into NAMA .

So you expect me and the rest of the posters here to pay for your recklesness, because you are not man (or woman) enough to face up to your responsibilities.

Wonderful.

 

[Bronte]

So you expect me and the rest of the posters here to pay for your recklesness, because you are not man (or woman) enough to face up to your responsibilities.

Wonderful.

Well it's preferable for Fast Eddy to do that then to say commit suicide.

I've often wondered recently if some of those up to their neck in debt wouldn't be better off posting the keys to the bank and going to rent a home especially if they've lost their job. It might be financially better for people with a lot of debt, in massive negative equity with property falling further, interest rates rising to just throw in the towel. Start with a clean plate. There will be a lot of it coming soon in Ireland (personal belief)

OP did make one good point about who colluding in making property prices artifically high - and those who still are be warned.

 

[lightswitch]

Well it's preferable for Fast Eddy to do that then to say commit suicide.

I've often wondered recently if some of those up to their neck in debt wouldn't be better off posting the keys to the bank and going to rent a home especially if they've lost their job. It might be financially better for people with a lot of debt, in massive negative equity with property falling further, interest rates rising to just throw in the towel. Start with a clean plate. There will be a lot of it coming soon in Ireland (personal belief)

OP did make one good point about who colluding in making property prices artifically high - and those who still are be warned.

I can understand where you're coming from Bronte, you being a landlord and all

 

[Bronte]

I can understand where you're coming from Bronte, you being a landlord and all

Well believe it or not I was priced out of the market with everyone else rushing in ! It just made no sense there in the middle of the boom. But I was there before the boom, in the middle of it and hopefully at the end of it when I may buy again when NAMA starts selling off property at knock down prices.

On a serious note I have a lot of sympathy for couples who bought a home at the height of the market without understanding what negative equity was. There were a lot of people deluded into thinking that property could only go up. I've met loads of them. But I've never understood the mentality that Haminkas's excellent post described. On AAM it's hard to figure out who got into debt for a home and who went mad with cars/loans/holidays and houses.

 

[lightswitch]

This part of your post,

"I've met loads of them. But I've never understood the mentality that Haminkas's excellent post described. On AAM it's hard to figure out who got into debt for a home and who went mad with cars/loans/holidays and houses."

Is answered by this other part of your post.

"There were a lot of people deluded into thinking that property could only go up."

I myself was offered top up mortgages for "anything at all, wink wink" as I had soooo much equity in my house "just sitting there". I didn't take it, I didn't need it, but many others did.

My bank are still calling me in for financial reviews. In the past, including last year this has always translated in to they wanting to sell me something. In the past it was always a loan, possibly with the cash shortage it is some sort of insurance this time.

 

[fast eddie]

This happens all the time in business . My accountant will contact the bank after a certain period of time and I will offer to settle for say 30 cents in the Euro . A deal will be done and everybody will be happy .

However I have the means to settle but what about all those unemployed people with 100 % mortgages , credit cards , credit union loans , personal loans , car loans etc etc etc ?
They simply will be never be able to repay . If they are forced to spend the rest of their lives repaying these debts they will be dead to the economy and the state will be forced to house them in social housing .
There will have to be a NAMA for them or debt forgivness on a massive scale or Ireland will simply grind to a halt for the next 20 years .

We can blame the ECB for cheap credit or Greensspan , pure greed , stupidity but at the end of the day the government failed in one very simply duty . To regulate the banks and reign in their lending practices .

 

[UFC]

My bank are still calling me in for financial reviews. In the past, including last year this has always translated in to they wanting to sell me something.

Why would it be anything else? If the used car sales man rang you for a "review", it's because he wants to sell you a car.

I don't understand why so many people can't/won't accept that banks are ruthless money lenders; they aren't independent financial advisors who care about you.

 

[dodo]

At this stage it does not matter who's fault it was damaged is done, people are looking for advice on what to do now.No point saying you did this and that so hard luck pay up.
The fact is alot of people have now lost their jobs and simply can't repay,so what are they meant to do now. The I told you so remarks are not what people need to hear .
They know that now so what do you do if you now find yourself with a mortgage of 400K and house value now 200K and you are now on 204E a week.
To me as I said before is your health is more important than anything else.You can't spring money from a hat or anywhere else for that matter.
I think if it was me I would simply just leave Ireland and set up somewhere else. Banks don't follow people for money to places thousand's of miles away and even if they did the person still does not have the money to pay.

Can someone please tell me what they would honestly do if they had mortgage of 400K house value 200K and had no job and no sign of one for a few years. and had a wife and say 2 children.Bank will force you out of house as you can't pay then what?

 

[haminka1]

dodo - before we start singing The Internationale and raise the clenched fist, let's make a clear cut between what this thread is about and what you describe :

First story :

I bought a house in the time of property boom because it seemed like a good idea at that time. Now I lost my job, I am desperately trying to pay my mortgage but I just can't do anymore. I can't sell the house and even if I could I still owe the bank the difference between the original and the current value of the house.

Now, these people deserve any kind of advice and help they can get. They are doing their best to keep the roof above their heads for themselves and their families, they know that they are obliged to pay because at the end of the day it was their decision to buy the house.

Now, Palabra and others are a different story - they bought the property, they still have the money to pay they just don't feel like doing this. They don't feel responsible for their own decisions because it was somebody else forcing them to buy the house. Now, this kind of people really makes me see red. What are those people, some brainless puppets? And if they say that they were manipulated before, how are we to know they are capable of thinking on their own right now?
People must be able to take responsibility for their own actions, right or wrong.
Just like others, I'm also angry at the irresponsibility of the financial sector, at the developers who built houses from paper and sand and sold them for overblown prices - this doesn't mean I'm expecting the bank to lower my mortgage. I bought the house, it is my obligation to pay for it.

If we are blaming the banks for not thinking in advance, for spending money they didn't have to give us loans and mortgages and then looking for the easy way out by asking the state to save them - what makes us different from them if we say we didn't expect the crash, we borrowed heavily and now refuse to pay?

 

[dodo]

dodo - before we start singing The Internationale and raise the clenched fist, let's make a clear cut between what this thread is about and what you describe :

First story :

I bought a house in the time of property boom because it seemed like a good idea at that time. Now I lost my job, I am desperately trying to pay my mortgage but I just can't do anymore. I can't sell the house and even if I could I still owe the bank the difference between the original and the current value of the house.

Now, these people deserve any kind of advice and help they can get. They are doing their best to keep the roof above their heads for themselves and their families, they know that they are obliged to pay because at the end of the day it was their decision to buy the house.

Now, Palabra and others are a different story - they bought the property, they still have the money to pay they just don't feel like doing this. They don't feel responsible for their own decisions because it was somebody else forcing them to buy the house. Now, this kind of people really makes me see red. What are those people, some brainless puppets? And if they say that they were manipulated before, how are we to know they are capable of thinking on their own right now?
People must be able to take responsibility for their own actions, right or wrong.
Just like others, I'm also angry at the irresponsibility of the financial sector, at the developers who built houses from paper and sand and sold them for overblown prices - this doesn't mean I'm expecting the bank to lower my mortgage. I bought the house, it is my obligation to pay for it.

If we are blaming the banks for not thinking in advance, for spending money they didn't have to give us loans and mortgages and then looking for the easy way out by asking the state to save them - what makes us different from them if we say we didn't expect the crash, we borrowed heavily and now refuse to pay?

Point taken with the two different case's, those who can pay but refuse to those who just can't.
But would like your opinion on the guy who can't pay and is in the negative by 200K even if house was sold and he now has no house to boot.
He will never get a fair break here after defaulting so what should he do?

 

[haminka1]

dodo, the only thing I'd suggest to a person like that is to get in touch with social services and mabs to get some advice on how to solve such a situation.
sorry, but social blackmail doesn't work with me - i know these things happen and i know, yes, it could also happen to me. bad things happen, that's life. doesn't mean i'm going to blame others for my own decisions.

 

[MandaC]

Close friend of mine committed suicide because he could not pay his mortgage. This person would never dream of putting the keys back through the letterbox and heading off into the sunset. Would never owe anyone anything or shirk his responsibilities. That's why what happened happened. I wish it were different.

I totally agree with Haminkas post. Big difference to cant pay vs. wont pay. The original poster needs to grow a pair and take responsibility for his own actions.

 

[Bronte]

Another good post there Haminka but in your first scenario the person with the negative equity will be in debt forever and a day and in the 2nd scenario they will swan off into the sunset with not a care in the world.

There is going to be a big issue that needs to be looked at by government. Those that bought a house and are now in massive negative equity with no means to get it down, the state will be paying those mortgages (for the banks) if they are on the dole until they get a job and they will spend maybe the rest of their lives repaying the mortgage and never getting anywhere. No NAMA for them. If I were in that situation I do wonder what I would do. I think I'd weight up the figures and say, have the house, here are the keys screw the ICB report, wait 12 years and start again with a clean slate and I'd be better off financially.

 

[haminka1]

Another good post there Haminka but in your first scenario the person with the negative equity will be in debt forever and a day and in the 2nd scenario they will swan off into the sunset with not a care in the world.

Bronte - that's right - that's why I find the attitude of Palabra et co. so gross and immoral ..

 

[Chris]

We can blame the ECB for cheap credit or Greensspan , pure greed , stupidity but at the end of the day the government failed in one very simply duty . To regulate the banks and reign in their lending practices.

The high risk lending and greed on behalf of the banks is merely a symptom of the problem. The only reason banks are able to behave in the way they did (without breaking rules, laws or regulations and without going bankrupt) is because of the combination of:
1) the central banking system (lender of last resort will not let you go bankrupt) and
2) the fractional reserve banking system and
3) fiat currencies redeemable for nothing, which are all enforced by governments.
Throwing money at the regulator in order to patch up the symptons with more nonsense 'band-aid' regulations will not solve the underlying problem/disease.

 

[dodo]

Close friend of mine committed suicide because he could not pay his mortgage.
Sorry to hear about your friend but as I said before life is more important than money,he felt no other way out for him but I know of people who instead of taking the option of suicide took a flight from here and set up new elsewhere owing money.
I know I would prefer to hear of someone leaving the Country to start a new Rather than leave by suicide.
Suicide is up by 40% this year and this downturn is the cause of it.

 

[fast eddie]

The high risk lending and greed on behalf of the banks is merely a symptom of the problem. The only reason banks are able to behave in the way they did (without breaking rules, laws or regulations and without going bankrupt) is because of the combination of:
1) the central banking system (lender of last resort will not let you go bankrupt) and
2) the fractional reserve banking system and
3) fiat currencies redeemable for nothing, which are all enforced by governments.
Throwing money at the regulator in order to patch up the symptons with more nonsense 'band-aid' regulations will not solve the underlying problem/disease.

Both Canada and Australia have healthy banks because of tight regulation and a long history of both governments saying No to the banks in the face of strong lobbying by the banks .

 

[Palabra]

I went to the bank before I posted the original thread and offered them several options, as a solution to our (i.e. the bank and me) problem.

• I would service the loan as an interest only mortgage, and take my chances that in 10 years time the market would have recovered enough for us all to get out alive.
• I asked them if they would give me a break with the level of interest I'm currently paying. ( I'm locked into 5 1/2 % for the next three years)

They dismissed both suggestions out of hand.

People have said that I need to take responsibility for my actions and they are right ,I have to a certain extent been blinded by my anger.
But so do the banks need to take responsibility for their actions.

How can it be right that I and thousands like me should carry all the responsibility and burden of this problem, when you consider the lunatic, irresponsible behavior of the banks in all of this.

Should I just lie down and accept what the bank says, or should I "grow a pair" as one OP suggested and make some kind of stand.