If a guy in stood in front of me with a gun and told me swans were black, I'd have to just say yes swans are black. Why, because he has a gun. But I know swans are white but I'd have to deal with it.
Again, my point is, yes everyone knew the bubble was false but you have to deal with it. You still need to survive. You still need a home.
I can just afford to pay my mortgage, but my thinking more and more is why the hell I should I?
Complete and utter nonsense; someone in their 50s with stable income, deposit saved, money to furnish the house and the ability to service a 280k mortgage is NOT the highest risk client.He's expressing his views on the fact that the banks didn't give a toss about a)he/she was in their 50s and b)knew quite well that this was THE HIGHEST RISK client.
I only partially agree with this. Bankers took on too high risks. But the problem is not that they did it, the problem is that they are not being punished for it. A free-market economy should be based on a profit AND (here is the important part) loss system, where success is rewarded and failure is punished. What we have lived with for decades is a profit system. It's like being offered to gamble on the toss of a coin: heads you win a € tails you break even. In a system like this it is not surprising that bankers tossed the coin too much, but that was what was offered by our banking system.The monetary system is corrupt, it always has been. Money is debt, debt is money. That system needs to fail. Its only there as long as people have faith in that system. I think you should reconsider this before you decide to laugh in the face of a 50 year old who might be thrown out onto the streets and blame him for wanting a home because thats the only crime I see him/her guilty of.
The bankers are the cause of all this, let there be no bones about it. That was their game plan. To do everything in their power to make you never own an asset as valuable as your home becasue money is only a concept. Its worthless paper and its only worth what the central banks tell you its worth so theres no even point withdrawing all your money as you could find yourself next year paying 30euros for a pint of milk. Bankers are the problem not Palabra.
Yes, you need shelter, in the form of a home, to survive, but you do NOT need to own a home. Owning a home should be a reward for successfully managing your finances to be able to afford to buy it. The 'afford' part is open to individual interpretations, but if you decide you can afford a house and it turns out that when things go sour, you can't actually afford it, then that is your own doing. And no lack of regulation or rules should be blamed for this, it was your own decision.Again, my point is, yes everyone knew the bubble was false but you have to deal with it. You still need to survive. You still need a home.
Not stupid, maybe greedy for wanting to OWN, rather than rent. If all you wanted was a roof over your family's head, then the current value of your home should be completely irrelevant to you now and any time in the future.• I was stupid and greedy for wanting to buy a house and put a roof over my family’s head in the first place. I deserve everything that’s coming to me.
• The people gave me the loan, who deliberately conspired to bring about a scenario whereby I ended up paying nearly twice what the property is worth, they should take no hit whatsoever on this deal.
I agree, the banks should be allowed go bankrupt and liquidated. It's the only thing that will discourage this behaviour in the future.• No! Better yet! Now that their scam has blown up in their faces, the government should come in and wipe their arses and let them off to do the same thing again in the future.
I wish everyone here who had their crystal ball back in 2006/2007 spoke up.
I am sick and tired of the "it was your choice" argument. Read above, we had no choice, never did, we had two directions to go in, NOT CHOICES, pay a property developer huge money to live in their space or take out a huge mortgage for a grossly inflated property. In other words, we really didn't have a choice. My other gripe is not all of us overspent on 4X4s, plasmas, 3 holidays a year, some were modestly living and struggling all through the "celtic tiger" - I'm sick of the envy. It is not this man's fault he ended up with a weight around his neck at 54 years of age. It's a disgrace in fact. Get over the envy and drop the 'choice' argument, have some kindness, respect and consideration. Take it out on the bullies in charge!
IMy other gripe is not all of us overspent on 4X4s, plasmas, 3 holidays a year, some were modestly living and struggling all through the "celtic tiger" - I'm sick of the envy. It is not this man's fault he ended up with a weight around his neck at 54 years of age. It's a disgrace in fact. Get over the envy and drop the 'choice' argument, have some kindness, respect and consideration. Take it out on the bullies in charge!
Friday November 06 2009
I am sick and tired of the "it was your choice" argument. Read above, we had no choice, never did, we had two directions to go in, NOT CHOICES, pay a property developer huge money to live in their space or take out a huge mortgage for a grossly inflated property. In other words, we really didn't have a choice. !
The problem is not just an FF government, the problem is that ANY government would have introduced similar interventions instead of leaving the free market alone. I have yet to hear a politician in this country say that government should stay away from any form of economic intervention.Although I agree with the recommendations in the report, I am fearful they have not addressed the core of the problem.
Successive Fianna Fail governments created a situation whereby workers' wages became nothing more than leverage to borrow money.
Let me play devil's advocate here: all the banks did was offer what people wanted, loans. The fact that a vast majority of people wanted to own the big house, fancy car, 3 holidays a year, etc, on borrowed money is not the banks' fault. What is the banks' fault is the losses they are now seeing due to too high risks and they should not get a penny for it.The banks and the money they lent became the driving force of our economy. Everything we purchased and the majority of taxes we paid was with borrowed money. Our wages were used to make repayments.
We now have a situation where wages are being driven down but the debt accrued as a multiple of previous earnings is not. You will not get meek acceptance of wage cuts if you do not apply them fairly.
I am sick and tired of the "it was your choice" argument. Read above, we had no choice, never did, we had two directions to go in, NOT CHOICES, pay a property developer huge money to live in their space or take out a huge mortgage for a grossly inflated property. In other words, we really didn't have a choice. My other gripe is not all of us overspent on 4X4s, plasmas, 3 holidays a year, some were modestly living and struggling all through the "celtic tiger" - I'm sick of the envy. It is not this man's fault he ended up with a weight around his neck at 54 years of age. It's a disgrace in fact. Get over the envy and drop the 'choice' argument, have some kindness, respect and consideration. Take it out on the bullies in charge!
Let me play devil's advocate here: all the banks did was offer what people wanted, loans. The fact that a vast majority of people wanted to own the big house, fancy car, 3 holidays a year, etc, on borrowed money is not the banks' fault. What is the banks' fault is the losses they are now seeing due to too high risks and they should not get a penny for it.
You are painting a picture here as if it wasn't possible to have a basic standard of living in this country without taking out loans and mortgages, which is complete and utter nonsense.
I am not saying the Banks are blameless, but if they had reacted the opposite direction - i.e. tightened credit policy and virtually closed for business as they have done of late, people would've complained about that.
SO-CRATES.
So,not only are people to foot the bill for the banks and government cartel scheme, not only are people loosing their homes, not only are people loosing their jobs with the white and blue collars packing their bags but we are to be told over and over again by people like you that we are blind, ignorant and stupid of what was clearly our own problem brought on by our own greed. I would agree if it was people with more than one house, but not with one they want to call home. I knew for one that there was a property bubble and wasnt dumb enough to buy something overpriced like some, but at the end of the day, I did need somewhere to live and as there was no regulation in the rental market or the buying market...... I decided well why pay rent if its the same price as a mortgage?
My point is, regardless of how clear the signs are or were you still need a home. People knew the bubble was false. I would have opted to rent NO PROBLEM if rent was actually rent rates and not mortgage rates. We are slaves to the monetary system. Economists dont predict booms and boosts, International bankers create them. No one questions the origins of money. No one is stupid here. If a guy in stood in front of me with a gun and told me swans were black, I'd have to just say yes swans are black. Why, because he has a gun. But I know swans are white but I'd have to deal with it. Just like the government telling us theres a water shortage, THE PLANNET IS SURROUNDED BY THE STUFF! I then hear people say but its too hard to pureify salt water.. .... But its somehow easier to purify crude oil but no one questions that.
Again, my point is, yes everyone knew the bubble was false but you have to deal with it. You still need to survive. You still need a home.
I know a Irish guy who is married to a french lady,He bought investment house in 2006 with 100% mortgage of 360K house now 230K .He had already paid of his own house a few years back.
He bought a new house in France mid of 2008 after selling his own family home and posted back the key's of the investment house to the lender,he left no forwarding address and has no plan's to move to back to Ireland.The house in France is in his children's name.
Also worked with a Romanian guy who had a loan to build house back in his native land,lost job here and says he will never pay back loan.
These people never seem to have an issue after.
Know of a English guy who moved to Ireland in early 90,s after housing collapse in England.He was the first guy to mention jingle mail to me.Again never any follow up 15 or so years later. Banks allow for a certain amount of loss maybe have some sort of insurance.
If you feel that things are getting you down and maybe as some people do think of suicide due to your financial problems.Then maybe best thing to do is start all over again somewhere new and learn from your mistakes.
Suicides are up something like 40 % this year and this is due to the downturn in the Country. So before people start having a go at people who feel hard done by think about what some people are doing to escape.
I prefer to to think that these people had escaped to a foreign Country rather than took their own lives .
I know these people took out the loans and now know it was a mistake .
Of course people are there to pick up the tab but that will sort itself out in time.There are already some of those people who got us into this mess have flown the nest and set up new lives in Switzerland for eg.And these people just get on with it so why can't the normal guy do the same thing.