Day of National Mourning

I am sorry that JP2 died, but he was old and sick and it was probably his time ... if anyone was a sure bet to get into heaven it's surely him! As regards a day of mourning ... I will not mourne him, I will celebrate his life by doing something to remember him on Friday. My daughter has no school on Friday ... I doubt she even knows who the pope is ... I wonder could the same be said of the public servants who are getting the day off?
 
As a non-practising Catholic I actually DO believe that a national day of mourning would have been acceptable in Ireland. Close the pubs too in his honor to stop the usual Paddy's day debacle.

I say this as someone who doesn't agree with the church's stance on a great many subjects - including contraception, the role of women, divorce and abortion.

I'm also appalled by some of the would be successors, one of whom described gays in the eighties as "instrinsic moral evil"!!!!

Be that as it may, and as much as the Pope was a controversial figure...he strove for peace and unity across the world and did a great deal of good. Acknowledging that would not be a bad thing.

Personally having a DOM for 911 and not having one for the Tsunami victims was wrong. Large life changing events of that magnitude should always be noted by the general public.
 
I'm completely against a national day of mourning, as I was when we had one for September 11th. Masses in my town are on before work and after work every day of the week and will be held on Friday too. If people wish to attend, that's up to them.

I am totally perplexed at the coverage of the pope's illness and subsequent death. As far as I can see, it's mostly a product of media that are too lazy to report on what is happening in the world and have spent the last number of years compiling newsreels to run when the inevitable happened. Even my father (who goes to Mass daily) was muttering yesterday that the publicity fuelled outpouring of grief was undignified. I'm disappointed that Ireland hasn't moved on a little further from its Catholic roots but am glad, for once, that at least the government aren't losing the run of themselves (can't believe I'm saying that). Perplexed as I am, I would be much more perplexed in the UK where the prime minister refuses to attend the crown prince's nuptuals to attend the funeral of a religious leader of a small minority of citizens.

I'm a comitted atheist. I believe in live and let live and doing it with a bit of dignity and without infringing on others as far as possible. A day of mourning would be of no relevance to me and plenty of others and would be an inconvenience, if anything. Would we have a national day of mourning if Bill Clinton died after all he did in the North? Or what about Nelson Mandella? Did we do anthing about Ghandi? What about Bono or Bob Geldof? These are all men who have done lots of good in their lives (at varying levels) and who I admire more than the pope. How do the victims of abuse at the hands of clergy feel? The Catholic Church aren't providing the proper compensation and gave a wishy-washy apology and now we want a public holiday to remember the man at the head of all that. There are plenty of adverse effects of Catholic policy during John Paul II's papacy that could be listed to balance the claims of greatness.

And I want the real news back. What's happening in the rest of the world? How are the Tsunami people? What's going on in Iraq? What exactly was that UN job Dermot Ahern got?

Rebecca
 
I'm disappointed that Ireland hasn't moved on a little further from its Catholic roots but am glad, for once, that at least the government aren't losing the run of themselves


As far as I can see - it has nothing to do with being Catholic at all, as a quick poll of my nearest and dearest reinforced:

Mum (Jewish) - Yes we should have a mourning day
Best friend (Lutheran) - same as above
Ex boyfriend (Shi'a Muslim) - same as above
Japanese friend (Atheist) same as above
Work colleague (Buddhist) - same as above
Work Colleague (Catholic) - same as above
Dad (Catholic) - doesn't mind either way
Uncle (Atheist) - shouldn't have day of mourning
 
Noor77 said:
I'm disappointed that Ireland hasn't moved on a little further from its Catholic roots but am glad, for once, that at least the government aren't losing the run of themselves


As far as I can see - it has nothing to do with being Catholic at all, as a quick poll of my nearest and dearest reinforced:

Mum (Jewish) - Yes we should have a mourning day
Best friend (Lutheran) - same as above
Ex boyfriend (Shi'a Muslim) - same as above
Japanese friend (Atheist) same as above
Work colleague (Buddhist) - same as above
Work Colleague (Catholic) - same as above
Dad (Catholic) - doesn't mind either way
Uncle (Atheist) - shouldn't have day of mourning
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Did all of the above give their reasons why they believe we should have a day of mourning?
 
Well that about sums up my opinion on the whole thing - no matter what faith people are, they just want the day off!
 
Somebody wondered earlier on why Tony Blair is attending the funeral. I would imagine it is because his wife Cherie is Catholic, as are their children - they all attend (including Daddy Blair) Catholic mass every Sunday.

Noor
 
My (mostly Catholic) family and friends are against a national day of mourning, with me being the most adamant. My boyfriend is Christian Orthodox and is not bothered either way. No one I know experessed any wish to have one other than as a handy day off work and most agree that coverage is way OTT. If we go by this voxpop then, it seems that the pope means more to people who are not Catholic; which I doubt is the case, so they really don't count for much.

Rebecca
 
Noor77 said:
I would imagine it is because his wife Cherie is Catholic
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Yes, and Tony is allegedly all set to convert to RC himself after he leaves his prime ministerial role. If that is the case, I think it says a lot about him and the relationship between his personal faith and his job. If he was so convinced by Catholicism and his wife's faith meant so much to him, you would think upsetting the majority of Protestant voters wouldn't matter so much.

His wife's religious persuasion should not give rise to the prime minister declining to attend the wedding of the crown prince, future head of the Church of England. And no better woman than Cherie Booth QC to attend a funeral all on her ownsome.

Rebecca
 
MissRibena said:
it seems that the pope means more to people who are not Catholic; which I doubt is the case, so they really don't count for much.

Rebecca
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I beg to differ on non-Catholics not counting for much! The '50%' of me that is non Catholic is not impressed!

I thought this forum was just for expressing our opinions, not for pulling apart the views of others or making what might be construed as 'unsavoury' comments.

Aside from any religious connotations, as head of the Vatican, the Pope was a Head of State, so it is not unusual that other heads of state would attend his funeral
 
MissRibena said:
If we go by this voxpop then, it seems that the pope means more to people who are not Catholic; which I doubt is the case, so they really don't count for much.
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Noor, did it not cross your mind that however poorly worded it may seem, I might have meant that vox-pops don't count for much? As a non-catholic myself, I would hardly have meant what you construed!

To me, a discussion is the teasing out of what others have to say as well as means of examing your own views properly and maybe changing your mind or others' in the process. I stand over everything I say and am willing to clarify any points I make. There is nothing "unsavoury" about disagreeing.

As to the subject in hand; it's not Tony Blair's attendance at the funeral that is noteworthy, but rather, as I've already mentioned, his declining to attend the wedding of the future head of state of the country of which he is prime minister.

Rebecca
 
Noor77 said:
I think that there should be a day of mourning as a mark of respect to the Pope, in rememberance of his role as a spiritual leader. I think it is dreadful that the small firms association or whatever it is can come out and say that the economy would lose €600 million and that is why we should not have a day of mourning. It is particularly sad that something like this has to be reduced to purely economic terms..
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Fine, so I am sure that you won't mind giving up your days pay for the day off.
I have read and listened to all this about everyone should be given the day off. I have no problem with this buy why should the employers have to pick up the tab?
I would sugest that we have the day off and no-one gets paid, unless they actually work that day and then only for a normal days wages, not double time etc.
Some times I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear unions etc.
 
No Jem, I actually wouldn't mind giving up a days pay.
Basically, I don't feel that the Taoiseach will change his mind on Friday being an official day of mourning, but there are a lot of people around the country that would like if he did. I am generally not an advocate of these kinds of days off - I was very against the one we had for 9/11.

Noor
 
I don't believe it was announced that Tony Blair would decline attending the wedding, he hardly said this publicly, it was suggested in the press this would be his preference, but once the funeral date was decided it was obvious that the wedding was going to be moved Tony Blair being there or not. The Archbishop would have wanted to attend the funeral, a royal representative would have wanted to, normally this would be Charles, and Tony Blair would have wanted to.

Someone also suggested that the English election was postponed, it was the declaration of the election only.

Seating arrangements will be interesting with so many big wigs going, think I heard 200 world leaders (2 for most countries I suppose) + spouses + minders. Do they go alphabetical, by catholicness, wealth...
 
It's neither here nor there really but Tony Blair didn't announce it publicly (why would he). However on the pope's death, the royal family issued a statement saying the wedding was still on and it was only a couple of days later that the wedding date changed and the BBC said it was down to Tony Blair and the Archbishop of Canterbury having revised their RSVPs. Initially, Prince Charles had no intention of attending the pope's funeral.

To me and plenty of others, the significance of pope's death has been blown completely out of proportion. Has anyone else noticed the shift from liberal to conservative thinking in the last couple of years? I think the attention teh death of the pope has received is only part of a gradual seachange. Part of Bush's election success was attributed to his conservative views based on religous beliefs. Next thing we know, it turns out Tony Blair is also very religious, although I can't remember any great mention of this piousness before and certainly not during his first election campaign. He seems to be turning more conservative than the conservatives. Now the pope is lauded for standing by what he believes in eventhough what he stood for is very conservative by comparison with life on the ground in Europe. It seems that there's a greater acceptance of prejudiced views so long as the holder can back them up with a "deep religious faith". History shows that periods of decadence, which you could argue that the nineties up to 911 were, swing back abrubtly to a socially restrictive oppositive (Georgian -> Victorian, WW2 -> Fifties, The Twenties -> Thirties). I find it pretty worrying, especially as a woman.

Rebecca
 
ninsaga said:
Prince Charles has postponed his wedding and Tony Blair his general election and we are doing......nothing.
Prince Charles postponed his wedding because of the number of guests who are choosing to attend Pope JPII's funeral instead of the wedding! As an employer, I am not in favour of a DOM. I am attending mass at 7.30 this evening in memory of His Holiness.
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I also do not agree with a day off work to mourn the pope if people want to show their respect then they can get to their parish church and pray for him
a day off work for most people = shopping trip or a pub excursion.

My view is in no way affected by the fact that I am off this Friday :)

Tee hee hee
 
Why does a DOM automatically associates with DOW (Day of Work)?

If one believes that he would like to mourn the death the leader of his faith or the leader of a separate state, than that is his right, but why does that mean that everyone has to take a day off?

If one would like to have a day off for the funeral, than I’m sure that s/he can apply for holidays and if possible an employer would give off.

I’m pro separation of state and church and as good of a leader/man/person JOPII was, he is still a foreign leader and a head of a church! So who wants to mourn should do it but not automatically expect that everybody mourns and get’s a day off.

Last time I checked nobody has a DOM for the millions dying of hunger, AIDS (for which the catholic church has responsibility too), civil war, natural disasters and else.

Where are we drawing the line here?

Otherwise I want a day off, when the Chief Rabbi dies, the Archbishop of some fuzzy church, the head of the some banana republic and I’m sure there are dozen of other similar (head of state/church) areas.

In short – mourning does not mean a day off – you can mourn silently and attend mass or any other religious ceremony outside working hours.
 
Re: It's over. There is no day of National Mourning!

I don't understand all these increasingly oppositional posts. It's done and dusted. There is no day of national mourning. Those of us who feel otherwise can do our own thing at our own expense. That should keep everyone happy.

Now I see why this is called "Letting Off Steam"! Or could it be that many people (I almost said "we" - mea culpa) are so stressed they could do with a day off? At their own expense of course.

sherib
 
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Ah now sherib, people are still entitled to discuss decisions of our fearless leader even after the event. It's called a democracy. Where you are going wrong is thinking that everyone should or could be kept happy! :)

Rebecca
 
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