Day of National Mourning

Re: Day of National Mourning - a class act in the 20th C

I presume you mean on behalf of Catholics? Please bear in mind that not all of "us" are Catholics. Thanks.
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But of course. I should have been clearer that I meant on behalf of Christians world-wide. Only a billion plus. Or more accurately I meant - on behalf of non-Jewish humanity. I don't recall any Christians dissenting to his apology to the Jewish people. The full quote was:

..throughout his papapy he never ceased to work for justice for every human regardless of race, creed or colour. He apologised to the Jewish people and met with Muslim leaders on our behalf.
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We were on our knees in 1979 when he visited us. Now we are rich and it doesn't seem to become us.
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Ditto.
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Don't understand the second "ditto". As a nation Ireland was on its knees - economically. If you don't know that I'm surprised. Up to 50% of graduates had to emigrate. Large numbers went as illegals to the US. Others went to Australia or wherever they could find employment. It was much worse for those without training or qualifications. Days we would hope never to see again. Hope we can agree on that.
 
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My simple point is that I and, I'm sure, others would like to opt out of your seemingly all encompassing/inclusive use of the terms "us" and "we" above in relation to the actions of the Pope and the actions of certain people c. 26 years ago. By the way, there are millions of Christians and other non Jews worldwide who would also not accept that the Pope acted on their behalf!
 
Re: Day of National Mourning - Class Act of the 20th C

Commenting out of context is unfair and unworthy. My point is simply that Pope John Paul endeavoured to represent the oppressed world wide and succeeded in many instances. The Berlin Wall has been mentioned as being one of those. All of this has and is being acknowledged by political and religious leaders worldwide. That is more than enough for me. He used his influence on behalf of humanity. If we had more leaders like that, the world would be a safer place. He didn't talk the talk - he walked the walk.

But it doesn't stop me feeling ashamed of our leader's lack of respect which others, of all denominations, are showing.

Mincing words adds nothing. Nor do I presume to be speaking for anyone else. No one has ever dissented where the furtherance of peace and justice in the world was the late Pope's purpose. Hence "us" and "we". I wasn't referring to anything else.

It is also true there are burning issues that were pushed to the back burner such as the control of AIDS in Africa. Hopefully his successor will grasp those nettles. BTW, I am not hung up on religion. Greatness is given to very few in any century. Even fewer are those who use their power and influence in the interest of humanity. This Pope did.
 
I could be wrong, but on the day of mourning for the 9/11 victims, were the shopping centres etc, not closed? I believe that there should be a day fo mourning, but only if it applied to all employees.
 
Re: Day of National Mourning - Class Act of the 20th C

sherib said:
He used his influence on behalf of humanity.
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He didn't betray much humanity in his pronouncements on homosexuals, their relationships and, especially, their preferred sexual practices. Quit the opposite in fact.
 
Re: Day of National Mourning for the Class Act of the 20th C

sherib said:
Prince Charles has postponed his wedding and Tony Blair his general election and we are doing......nothing. Bertie, the consumate ditherer, has done it again. The people of this country have to depend on our leader to do the right thing by us. IMO he has let us down.
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I am always amazed at the propensity of people in post-tiger Ireland to think that the world revolves around us and that we are somehow shamed if our gestures don't outdo those of every other country. Does anyone really care if the Slovenes or the Catalans give themselves a day off on Friday? I doubt it. Why then would they worry about the Irish?

sherib said:
What would be so terrible if commerce stopped for just one day?.
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In all the hubbub I have yet to hear anyone offering to forego their wages on Friday, either by taking a day's leave to pray, or perhaps by working and donating their pay to a good cause. No thank you, we would much prefer if Bertie could force someone else to pick up the tab for us while we head for Liffey Valley.
 
ubiquitous said:
RTE quoted a govt source this morning who said that the idea of a Day of Mourning was rejected for protocol reasons - if you have a DOM now for the Head of State of the Vatican, then questions would be asked if we did not do the same on the deaths of future Heads of State of other countries. I can see their point.

There is also a valid argument that this would be also an issue on the death of any future British monarch (head of the Anglican Church, to which the Church of Ireland is affiliated) or even Dr. Ian Paisley (as head of the Free Presbyterians). The govt surely dont want to go down that road.
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Forget protocol! This is not an issue of diplomacy but rather one of responding to the remarkable, if not unique, national and global acclaim that JPII has received as one of the greatest and most inspiring world leaders of the past century. If there was anything like the same public clamour for a DOM on the passing of any other Head of state or religious leader then that should be considered also (I doubt the examples in the quote above would generate even a ripple of support!).

I also don't have a problem if some people want to go to the zoo or spend the day in the pursuit of retail therapy in any shops that remained open in the pursuit of profit. Those people would at least have an awareness of the person who made that day of freedom and pleasure possible. Others might attend a religious service and even more people of any or no religious belief might watch the funeral on TV and gain some moving and educational insights into the life and death of a truly holy man whose impact on the world was colossul
 
Catholics should also be mourning the collapse of their Church. Despite his many achievements, John Paul II presided over one of the worst periods of the church's history, and alienated himself from millions as result.

Day of mourning? Let's declare one, sure. However that doesn't have to mean a day off work.
 
Re: Day of National Mourning - Class Act of the 20th C

ubiquitous
No thank you, we would much prefer if Bertie could force someone else to pick up the tab for us while we head for Liffey Valley.
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Not everyone worships at the shrine of the shopping centre. But, if they do, that is their choice. This could be a day for people to do as they please without the pressure of the daily grind. Incidentally, Bertie has used the taxes of everyone in this country for high cost projects that some of us may have little interest in. For example to the GAA, Punchestown and others. A day of National Mourning is one that I would subscribe to - and have already as a compliant taxpayer. Nor do I care what the Slavs or others do.

ClubMan
He didn't betray much humanity in his pronouncements on homosexuals, their relationships and, especially, their preferred sexual practices. Quit the opposite in fact.
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I agree, that was an ommission. These are theological questions that I sincerely hope will be resolved. There is a great need to show compassion and understanding towards all who are different to the mainstream. But there's a limit to what one individual can achieve in a lifetime.
 
I may be wrong, and can anyone clarify for me, did America observe a national day of mourning for 9/11? I thought they didnt, and if so why on earth did we observe one??
 
According to the RTE news last night we are observing 6 days of national mourning. We are not all getting a day off work at someone else’s expense.
It seems to me that the idea that everyone should get a day off to go to the shop or zoo etc as a sign of respect for a man who wept on the alter in Poland on his last visit at how secular and comsumeristic his homeland had become is a bit out of keeping with the values that the man espoused.

Clubman, while I agree with your sentiments I think you are being a bit abrasive in your arguments. There is no need to dissect and deconstruct the detail of posts you disagree with, it's the sentiment expressed that counts.
 
My employers (private sector) have just announced that a prayer service will be held at work on Friday for all employees who wish to attend. Our flags are also at half mast. These gestures seem to have quashed the debate at work as to whether we need a DOM and most people seem happy with it.
 
It depends on what you mean by a Day of National Mourning.

I was living and working in the US at the time of the World Trade Center attacks. There was no day off work, but there was certainly national mourning. The American people did not seem to need guidance from government officials on when, how and where they should mourn the deaths of their countrymen and women. Churches of all persuasions were filled to overflowing during normal services in the weeks and months following the events.




gentle123 said:
I may be wrong, and can anyone clarify for me, did America observe a national day of mourning for 9/11? I thought they didnt, and if so why on earth did we observe one??
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Yeah thats what i meant, we in ireland had a day off work, Why, when the americans didnt have a day off work.
 
Because the Americans did not see any connection between mourning and getting off work. That seems to be a peculiarly Irish phenomemon.
 
I think there should be a day of national mourning and I suggest the following: Sunday is the day of morning, pubs have to close at 8pm on Saturday and not open until Monday, and all retail outlets should be closed.
I think that would be something the late pope would have wanted. As I don't think the governement would have the balls to do that, people are more than welcome to attend mass at 7am before they go to work. The laziness of people shocks me sometimes.
 
This is all being driven by the bloody teachers who just want yet another day off work. Why can't the teachers conduct suitable exercises in the schools to help the pupils with the mourning process? If the schools are closed and the kids are being minded because their parents are at work, will the kids be mourning or will they be watching telly?
The whole thing is bloody nonsense.
 
What have the teachers done to deserve this?

If the president of your local sports club dies, you'd expect the club to close on the day of the funeral as a markof respect.

The head of the RC church has died so I'd expect many RC operations (including schools under RC trusteeship) to do likewise.

If you have a problem with this, have a go at the Church - can't really see why the teachers should get caught in the crossfire.
 
Am I being really thick or is there an obvious explanation as to why Cuba is having three days of mourning?
 
I think that there should be a day of mourning as a mark of respect to the Pope, in rememberance of his role as a spiritual leader. I think it is dreadful that the small firms association or whatever it is can come out and say that the economy would lose €600 million and that is why we should not have a day of mourning. It is particularly sad that something like this has to be reduced to purely economic terms. One of my parents is Catholic and the other is non-Christian, and the non-Christian parent feels strongly that Friday should be a day of mourning. I don't think having such a day will upset thw non-Christian peoples of Ireland. My ex partner (with whom I am very good terms) is a shi'a Muslim from Lebanon and is delighted that his country is having an official day of mourning - and this day is not just for the Maronite Christians of Lebanon but for all religions in the country, or anyone that has a spiritual side and who would like to remember the passing of a world spiritual leader.

I do not agree with many of the teachings of the Catholic Church - and especially it's view of the role of women in modernity, but that does not mean I cannot admire the Pope as a human being of immense spiritual beliefs. I too, would be more inclined to go to the zoo or the park on Friday, but I would certainly be reflecting on the Pope's life.
 
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