dereko1969
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You're not a cyclist, presume you've never been to the Netherlands or Denmark. I think you are saying it is a bad thing.
Cycling the single biggest sporting activity for referrals to brain unit in Beaumont
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That's exactly it! People don't want to acknowledge they may be part of the problem.
In not reduced speed, what measures do you think would be better at stopping motorists hitting other motorists, pedestrians, and cyclists within the constraints of our existing infrastructure?
Any evidence of the cycling lobby ever suggesting that?
Baby boomer
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Bit of a trick question, eh? Attaching the condition "within the constraints of our existing infrastructure" is not a reasonable approach. Why would you exclude infrastructure improvement when it can obviously reduce accidents? Here's some ideas.
1. Motorways are statistically the safest roads and we need more of them, particularly the M20 Cork Limerick route and an outer orbital route for Dublin. This will save lives as the M1, M3 and M7 in particular did.
2. A lot of pedestrians who get hit are under the influence of alcohol and stagger or stumble into the path of cars. Not the drivers fault, in most cases. Absence of hi-vis is also a contributory factor. Should be compulsory for pedestrians especially on unlit roads. Divert anti-motorist policing and RSA propaganda towards encouraging sensible safe behaviour by pedestrians.
3. Zero tolerance for cycling on footpaths. It'll stop cyclists hitting pedestrians. (Not what you asked for but every little helps.)
4. Remove VAT from car repairs, tyres and servicing to encourage motorists to keep their cars in good condition.
5. Abolish VRT to encourage sales of new cars. Newer = safer when it comes to cars.
6. Basic roads maintenance. Fill the bloody potholes! Less potholes = less damage to suspensions = safer cars. Improve lighting, signage and road markings.
7. Driver, cyclist and pedestrian education in schools.
Ok this is a nice somewhat tongue in cheek wish list and obviously it won't happen. Particularly with the idiot greens in government. But it's worth recognising that driver behaviour isn't the only thing that causes accidents. Other road user behaviour, road infrastructure and vehicle condition is also relevant. We've had enough of the punitive approach to motorists - let's look at the other factors too.
Baby boomer
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Then there must be loads of evidence. Care to provide some?
Confrere Dereko my fellow poster on this forum I can categorically say that I've used and worn down several bicycles in my plight to cycle to work for many years (every day from 1980 to 2000 and less before and after that). Certainly, five days per week I cycled from Cork's south side into the city centre starting at 8.15am, cycled home to lunch and back to work again and later cycled home again. I delivered a child every morning to school while she sat on the bar of the bike. I can safely say that I probably was as fit as Eddy Mercxx (famous cyclist if you are not aware). In the first few months of my retirement I reconstructed three bikes that had been rusting in the shed. I bought a bike rack for the car and during some weekends there are 6 or 7 bikes placed on it while we bring our grandchildren off to some greenway or beach location. We're not candidates for Ireland's Fittest Family but the Swiss Family Robinson would have to work hard to catch up with us in our defensive cycling techniques.
I'm not blind either. I can see the terrific improvements that have been made over the years for cyclists. I spent a few weeks in Amsterdam and Copenhagen too and to be honest while their cycling infrastructures are excellent I'm glad I don't have the same outlook on life as most of the inhabitants of those two cities. Anybody who thinks there is no cycling lobby probably has the same eyesight as Ray Charles with no offence to the great performer. I'm approaching a very important birthday (three score and ten) and still I use the bike, but confining my cycling to off road because motorists are getting closer and faster and many other cyclists ignore the rules of the road and the laws of the land too.
I love the cycling but hate what many cyclists have become. Spare me from those fools who cycle through Cork looking for problems rather than enjoying the ride and at every opportunity wave their fists (while cycling) at whatever pedestrian/motorist who'll bow to their stupid bullying.
When the Covid restrictions are lifted our aim to to spend a couple of days between Dungarvan and Waterford and finally cycle the whole greenway there. So, confrere Dereko, you're welcome to join us and perhaps Purple can come along too? With Tim Severin gone (died over Christmas) perhaps we could televise the event as confrere Askaboutmoney Explorers?
. . . and Dereko my New Year's Message to you:- When it comes to Lepers, never assume anything. Looking forward to many more years of cycling.
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dereko1969
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I may have been a little short and presumptuous in my reply, apologies for that.
However, with the greatest respect, there has been a massive increase in the number of motor vehicles since 2000 when you stopped cycling on roads here. You even state yourself that drivers are getting closer and faster, that's why there's a need for more cycling infrastructure, on a scale of that available in Denmark and the Netherlands, I'm not sure what you're getting at with your comments on the Dutch and Danish outlook on life, could you extrapolate?
There are muppets using all types of transport, I know the Cork youtuber you're talking about and some of his videos are stupid but there are quite a few where his life is endangered and where he has not received justice when the Garda have been shown his videos which quite clearly show dangerous overtaking. It is was me, I'd try to find a different route but maybe that's not possible, I don't know Cork that well.
I've cycled the Waterford Greenway a few times now, it's truly excellent and we're building a lot more so you'll have lots of options in the future but in order to address congestion in our cities, air quality and quality of life we need much more infrastructure that's attractive for children to use (not everyone is as lucky as Purple's child to have a father showing them how to cycle confidently on the road) and that will be used by as many people as possible, that will actually make it easier for the remaining people driving.
However, with the greatest respect, there has been a massive increase in the number of motor vehicles since 2000 when you stopped cycling on roads here. You even state yourself that drivers are getting closer and faster, that's why there's a need for more cycling infrastructure, on a scale of that available in Denmark and the Netherlands, I'm not sure what you're getting at with your comments on the Dutch and Danish outlook on life, could you extrapolate?
There are muppets using all types of transport, I know the Cork youtuber you're talking about and some of his videos are stupid but there are quite a few where his life is endangered and where he has not received justice when the Garda have been shown his videos which quite clearly show dangerous overtaking. It is was me, I'd try to find a different route but maybe that's not possible, I don't know Cork that well.
I've cycled the Waterford Greenway a few times now, it's truly excellent and we're building a lot more so you'll have lots of options in the future but in order to address congestion in our cities, air quality and quality of life we need much more infrastructure that's attractive for children to use (not everyone is as lucky as Purple's child to have a father showing them how to cycle confidently on the road) and that will be used by as many people as possible, that will actually make it easier for the remaining people driving.
Yeah, in fairness it was as really, I wanted ideas excluding infrastructure improvement because we simply can't afford it unless it's all PPP with significantly increased tolls, and it does nothing to address speed and alcohol, the two most significant factors in fatalities here.
This question boils down to is the amount of 'interference' or control we're willing to put up with in order to save lives. Many motorists perceive speed enforcement and alcohol limits as some sort of attack on their freedoms. That attidude often mellows over the years, and pretty much always does when a loved one is killed as a result of someone else ignoring those rules.
Absolutely motorways are very safe, but look at where the fatalities are happening. Two thirds of fatal collisions occur on local and regional roads, you can't put motorways everywhere and we can't afford to convert all national routes.
The RSA report on 2008-1012 fatal collisions states that 9% of these involved a pedestrian who was 'deemed in full or part to have contributed to the collision.' So certainly an issue that demands attention, but not an easy fix. More has been invested in awareness and education since, I haven't seen anything on whether that is having an effect.
With so little enforcement of road traffic legislation, it's hard to make a case for the existence of anti-motorist policing.
Agreed, it is illegal after all. Though that would do nothing for deaths. The only cyclist/pedestrian collision resulting in a death that I'm aware of in recent years resulted in the death of the cyclist.
We can't afford it and there's no evidence to suggest it would make any difference, our vehicle fleet is young. Tyres aren't expensive yet the RSA say worn tyres are a factor in ~10% of fatalities.
Drivers have a responsibility to drive with due care and attention, at a speed that is appropriate to the conditions, and in a manner where they can react safely to risks as they arise. You can't blame a pothole for an accident if you're driving too fast to see it.
dereko1969
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@Baby boomer : But it's worth recognising that driver behaviour isn't the only thing that causes accidents.
Collision might be a better word than accident as the latter implies it just happened, the stats would disagree. Obviously driver behaviour isn't the only thing but it is the most important element.
"Over the time period 2008 to 2012, 983 fatal collisions occurred on Irish roads claiming the lives of 1,077 people. This report examines 867 of the fatal collisions which occurred during this time period specifically focusing on the vehicle and associated behavioural factors which may have contributed to the collision.
Of the 867 collisions analysed, 274 (32%) were cited as having excessive speed for the road and conditions as a contributory factor to the collision. This may not have been the sole cause of the collision but contributed in either full or part to the final outcome. Of this number 19% cited excessive speed as the sole contributory factor. Therefore, for the purpose of gaining a better insight into the use of excessive speed on our roads, 274 collisions were analysed where there was clear identification of excessive speed on its own or in combination with other poor road use behaviours. In this report, when discussing the 274 collisions, the term speed always refers to Excessive Speed."
Collision might be a better word than accident as the latter implies it just happened, the stats would disagree. Obviously driver behaviour isn't the only thing but it is the most important element.
"Over the time period 2008 to 2012, 983 fatal collisions occurred on Irish roads claiming the lives of 1,077 people. This report examines 867 of the fatal collisions which occurred during this time period specifically focusing on the vehicle and associated behavioural factors which may have contributed to the collision.
Of the 867 collisions analysed, 274 (32%) were cited as having excessive speed for the road and conditions as a contributory factor to the collision. This may not have been the sole cause of the collision but contributed in either full or part to the final outcome. Of this number 19% cited excessive speed as the sole contributory factor. Therefore, for the purpose of gaining a better insight into the use of excessive speed on our roads, 274 collisions were analysed where there was clear identification of excessive speed on its own or in combination with other poor road use behaviours. In this report, when discussing the 274 collisions, the term speed always refers to Excessive Speed."
Boomy, there is data in the Dept. of Transport to refute this. It says that such a motorway will encourage development in towns along the route and discourage the further development of Cork as a larger urban centre with attendant economies of scale; a sustainable public transport system in the city for example. I'm not saying I belong to that school of thought, just pointing out that there is an alternative view.
Brendan Burgess
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Apparently John Wayne hated cyclists
Baby boomer
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Indeed, I'd agree with that data. But what's wrong with that? I'd suggest the towns on the route could benefit greatly from development. Not everybody wants to live in a city!
This is shared path along the canal and there is no cycle path marked out separating pedestrians from cyclists.
Royal Canal Cycle May 2017 Part 1
Cycled the Royal Canal from the Liffey on Sunday 21st May stopped off in Mullingar Kerrigans B&B for the night then on to Cloondara and Longford and the trai...
www.youtube.com
Royal Canal Way Ireland. Maynooth to Phibsborough #4
Royal Canal Way27 Jan 2019Coolmine, Castlenock, 12th Lock, Blanchardstown, Ashtown
www.youtube.com
Also here..
Dublin's new bike Greenway on the Royal Canal | North Strand to Guild Street
Dublin's most recent bike laneGreenways can be very effective, but the area its in can be a little off putting from using it.Instagram @ the.cycledelic.exper...
www.youtube.com
What happens here..
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com
or here...
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com
There is a reason cycling on a footpath isn't one of the new fixed charges.
Cyclists who use footpaths will not be fined
Cyclists will be able to continue using footpaths when the new fixed-charge notices system is introduced, the Irish Independent has learned.
www.independent.ie
Apparently John Wayne hated cyclists
Marion the Duke didn't like a lot of things...
Why john wayne didn't serve in military
No one was more a hero in World War II than John Wayne. At least that’s what the aliens will think when they view the historical foota...
remember70s.blogspot.com
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Yet another thread started with dubious statistics degenerates in to a free for all on cycling.
If you want less traffic, and better quality of air and life. Less people have to drive. If not cycling, then come up with some thing else other than a car.
If you want less traffic, and better quality of air and life. Less people have to drive. If not cycling, then come up with some thing else other than a car.
Cycling on a footpath is a no-no like standing up at Mass during the sermon and challenging what is being said by the priest. But, nowadays priests know that somebody can verbally challenge them during the sermon or protest by walking out stamping the way out the church door. Cycling on footpaths can be safe for adults as well as children provided due care is provided by the pedestrians and cyclists. I'm not saying all footpaths are safe for pedestrians and cyclists to share but I reckon most are.
It is time to try something different. If you are a cyclist riding in formation and sharing the wind resistance cycling on the footpath is not for you. But, if you are a leisure cyclist and have common sense towards safety, cycling slowly on the footpath can be of benefit. We all must accept change of one kind or other. Cycling on the footpath can be safe but an open mind and common sense and respect are necessary from the pedestrians and cyclists. Sadly, there is a shortage of all these traits in Ireland.
It is time to try something different. If you are a cyclist riding in formation and sharing the wind resistance cycling on the footpath is not for you. But, if you are a leisure cyclist and have common sense towards safety, cycling slowly on the footpath can be of benefit. We all must accept change of one kind or other. Cycling on the footpath can be safe but an open mind and common sense and respect are necessary from the pedestrians and cyclists. Sadly, there is a shortage of all these traits in Ireland.
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I think we then basically get ribbon development writ large. Ribbon development brings problems; think of the movement between the centres, none large enough to sustain a public transport system within or between them. More cars, more traffic etc.