I agree - while there have been price drops over the last few years in the area they've been mostly isolated incidents where the initial price was ludicrously high (and property still overvalued even at its reduced price!
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I agree - while there have been price drops over the last few years in the area they've been mostly isolated incidents where the initial price was ludicrously high (and property still overvalued even at its reduced price!
)Raskolnikov
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Is this is your PPR and are you selling primarily because you think there'll be a price correction?
If so, I hope you realise, that attitudes like this are the reason why we have a property bubble.
There's a whole world out there you know...just waiting for you!!
lol - it's more fun here
here's another new build priced below the builder. It doesn't look like it was ever lived in: €280,000, it's on the top floor and south facing
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Builders listing - From €300,000
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lol - it's more fun here
here's another new build priced below the builder. It doesn't look like it was ever lived in: €280,000, it's on the top floor and south facing
[broken link removed]
Builders listing - From €300,000
[broken link removed]
Coule this be a flipper worried they're going to be stuck with the apartment?
Whathome - Thats not a like for like comparison on the apartments. You can't compare different apartments and then quote a price drop. You may be correct - but you may not.
Besides the house I bought in November 2004 was 20% below the original asking and 10% below what the neighbours "thought/believed" it had sold for... The seller panciked and felt the market was on the way down (we made our offer at end Nov - end of Autumn season)... So price drops are not unusual at any time in a property market... Besides there are many crazy prices on properties at the moment. I know of 2 people in my estate who couldn't believe what houses were selling for - they popped their houses on the market for 10% above the crazy price with the attitude of - if someone is fool enough to buy at that price we'll take their money. Both houses didn't sell - not because the market was sluggish, but because they had priced themselves out of the market!
Besides the house I bought in November 2004 was 20% below the original asking and 10% below what the neighbours "thought/believed" it had sold for... The seller panciked and felt the market was on the way down (we made our offer at end Nov - end of Autumn season)... So price drops are not unusual at any time in a property market... Besides there are many crazy prices on properties at the moment. I know of 2 people in my estate who couldn't believe what houses were selling for - they popped their houses on the market for 10% above the crazy price with the attitude of - if someone is fool enough to buy at that price we'll take their money. Both houses didn't sell - not because the market was sluggish, but because they had priced themselves out of the market!
Yep - I'd say there's still a profit if it's a flipper. Interesting that they are undercutting the builder by 20k , it's supposed to be one of the desirable apartments.
So it's okay for the bulls to make a killing on the way up, but the bears have to be sensible and not endanger the market?
It's a free market and I don't think you should be passing judgement on room305 for selling up.
Surely it's attitudes like room305's that will end the bubble, not create it!?
The point is - they used to sell eventually. I've seen so many properties over the years that were WAY overpriced and I said - "That will never sell". Then after a few months of rising prices it looks cheap to someone and it's SOLD without dropping the asking price
So the market has changed, now more people are dropping their asking price in order to sell.Whathome - my point is that there is no evidence that the market has changed............. The market is still at the level of 2/3/4 months ago. You are saying that the market not going that further crazy 10% is a sign of change - no - the further crazy increase "is the change"
But your opinion/attitude that a 10% increase is not change, that it is the norm (and you would be a Bear - true), shows how the Irish (even an irish Bear) sees increases as "the norm"... Which further feeds into how big a bubble we are in!
But your opinion/attitude that a 10% increase is not change, that it is the norm (and you would be a Bear - true), shows how the Irish (even an irish Bear) sees increases as "the norm"... Which further feeds into how big a bubble we are in!
liteweight
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If it's a flipper they have to sell or else become liable to purchase, so the price drop would ensure a quick sale.
If the owner is selling, then it's no longer a new build and the purchaser would have to pay stamp duty. By dropping the price, they still attract FTBs (under threshold) and STB who would have to pay stamp duty. If a STB/owner occupier, buys from the builder, they get the apartment with no liability for stamp duty as long as its 125sq.mt. or under.
Moving from 10% growth to 0.1% growth is a change...even if prices never dropped...which I think they will do in time.
It is my PPR. I have already detailed my reasons for selling earlier on this thread. At the time I still thought there was potential for further increases but thought I might as well try and get out ahead of the top. Now I'm not so sure, there is some (albeit anecdotal) evidence of inventory build-up and the sheer number of asking price drops are significant. So we may well have seen the top. Either way, my reasons remain the same.
Having dealt with nothing but unbearable smugness and obscene posturing from people who managed to jump on the gravy train at right time (or whose children had the fortitude to be born in a certain parts of Dublin), I'd love to know the reasoning behind this statement. I have always been quite prudent with my money. I'm selling because of the actions of other people. If it wasn't for them I mightn't sell for another year or possible two.
Many of the investor/speculator properties weren't rented anyway....
If the house is sold to an investor then the number of houses to rent stays the same.
If the house is sold to a FTB then the number of people renting falls
- either way the ratio of renters to investment properties stays the same and hence rents shouldn't be impacted.
One of the many links on this thread was to an article by an american economist talking about the effects of a house price crash. He made the point that rents could rise in such a scenario. It was based on the premise that investors defaulted on their mortgage and the banks siezed the properties. The properties, which were previously available for rent, were boarded up as the bank tried to sell them. As there is a crash, it is not easy to sell them, so they remain boarded up a long while, thus reducing the amount of rental stock out there.
However this scenario doesn't seem too likely to me in an Irish context. Some poster mentioned a bank scheme whereby they froze your mortgage and rented your house back to you at a much lower rate. I think banks will be reluctant to sieze properties, and look for other methods. Investors who try to sell themselves will either sell to another investor (meaning the property is still available to rent) or to an occupier (meaning that some other property will be freed up to rent).
Edit: As cjh says, if the property was originally sitting idle, it may be rented out by the new owner (or existing owner) thus increasing the rental supply and hopefully (for tennants) reducing rents.
However this scenario doesn't seem too likely to me in an Irish context. Some poster mentioned a bank scheme whereby they froze your mortgage and rented your house back to you at a much lower rate. I think banks will be reluctant to sieze properties, and look for other methods. Investors who try to sell themselves will either sell to another investor (meaning the property is still available to rent) or to an occupier (meaning that some other property will be freed up to rent).
Edit: As cjh says, if the property was originally sitting idle, it may be rented out by the new owner (or existing owner) thus increasing the rental supply and hopefully (for tennants) reducing rents.
Plus there's curently serious spare capacity as outlined earlier in this thread. Also not all investors bought in the last 10years. The long-term landlords can easily afford to ride out any price falls without getting hurt financially...
CelloPoint
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It's not as black and white as "Mass sell-off => demand for rental property increases".
There are numerous other factors to be taken into account, including (but not limited to): immigrant emigration, emigration by Irish people (especially young people and those lured back to Ireland on promises of gold-lined celtic tiger streets), oversupply, pre-2002 hangers-on refusing to sell as rental income still covers their mortgage, etc.
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