But the problem is the problem NOT baptising the child would cause. I can't imagine going to the in-laws or my own family and telling them the child's not getting baptised a Catholic. That would be the end of it.
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As I mentioned on a post in another thread, I have a new baby arriving shortly.
I would love to make a stand and not get it baptised into this evil organisation now, instead letting it decide for itself when its old enough which religion (if any) it wants to follow. I'd rather the child was christian in attitude and respect everyone rather than have to be a Catholic immediately.
But the problem is the problem NOT baptising the child would cause. I can't imagine going to the in-laws or my own family and telling them the child's not getting baptised a Catholic. That would be the end of it.
So perhaps thats why so many are still queuing up - cos its expected.
...The problem with the Catholic Church in Ireland is that, since the foundation of the State, it was all about power & social control.
In the last 20 its been about scandal, disgrace, hypocrisy unveiled.
I absolutely believe in total separation of church & state, no role in education & health, no "catholicising" of our legislation - e.g. licencing laws on Good Friday. OK they did much good (& harm) years ago in health and education, but now the government has stepped in, is footing the bill, and should take full control.
Once that separation process is complete (only partially there, church still owns schools & hopsitals I gather), then the power & social control aspect will be fully gone, and religion can find its true home as a personal matter, celebrated in congregations, expressed in charity etc.
I dont think the wiping of religion from the developed world would be a good development (leaving aside the outdated sectarian aspect of Norn Iron, or the looper element of radical islam).
I don't mean to be rude but it's hard to belive in this day and age that you are an adult who can't stand up for your beliefs.
Really what is wrong with people.
I agree 100%.
Whilst I accept the principle I think this is a bit harsh. I'm not a parent but if I was, I can well imagine that RMCF's dilemma would also be an issue for me - and for many. Also, as has been mentioned, for now at least, schooling may be problematic.
Yes it could be but only if the status quo survives.
I don't believe it to be an evil organisation, rather that evil men and women have used it to further their own needs.
Quad erat demonstrandum!but the organization allowed them to "futher their own needs".
I don't believe it to be an evil organisation, rather that evil men and women have used it to further their own needs.
I think it would nearly be best all round (subject to that legal concern), to get it into the public domain ASAP, let 2009 be an annus horribilus (as HRH might say).
Horrible deeds, but on the clerical side its a bit unfortunate that the guilty are largely escaping (dead, unidentified publicly) and innocent (the vast majority of decent honest priests) are left to carry the can for it. If civil or public servants feel unloved, can you imagine what it must be like for an honest priest at the moment.
That said the victims are top priority and church coffers should be prised open for them, & in the long run final analysis it may at least lead to a more mature church and state relationship, and more acceptable ambitions of the catholic church in Ireland (i.e. I think its fair to say that the 'social control' aspect of a homogenous catholic state is gone for good, & good riddance).
I don't agree with your first bit above, Betsy. If I was a victim of one of the priests not named in the report, I'd want that abuser to rot in a prison cell for the rest of his life. If I thought that I wouldn't get justice, all because his name was put into the public domain and he got off, claiming the publicity would prevent him getting a fair trial, it would make my living nightmare even worse.
How is it not an evil organisation?
Its people in charge/at the top knew about all this happening, yet did nothing to stop it. They moved the offenders about so that they simply had more 'fresh meat' to prey on, more children to abuse. If you know about evil, harbour it and let it continue to breathe then you yourself are evil. If you never touched a child, yet knew of others doing it and did nothing about it, then in my eyes, and in the eyes of many, you are as evil as the abuser yourself.
I know that there are good people in the CC, but the organisation itself is rotten to the core and so unChristian in its actions. Unfortunately all the good people have been tainted with the sins of the rather large minority.
And don't forget that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg here. If every single Catholic diocese in the world had an investigation done into it like we have seen here, I am sure the number of offending priests would run into the thousands, and the victim numbers into the tens of thousands, maybe more.
Again I would reiterate that there were and are men and women who are rotten to the core, they are not the organisation, they used it for their own needs and others were compliant through trying to preserve a public face.
Again I would reiterate that there were and are men and women who are rotten to the core, they are not the organisation, they used it for their own needs and others were compliant through trying to preserve a public face.
Anyone an expert on Canon Law? Does it's rules mean that you do not have to obey Civil Law ?
Anyone an expert on Canon Law? Does it's rules mean that you do not have to obey Civil Law ?
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