Crackdown on Prov License Drivers - Will it stick?

corkfella said:
i'm on a full license but did drive on a provisional for a number of years having failed 1 test and waiting for a resit and I believe this is a joke BUT it wont be enforced, the previous law was just the same bar the 1000 euro fine and having been stopped on a couple of occassions by d guards they never asked why i did not have a full time driver in the car with me. sorry to go a bit off topic but I think this is absolute master spin by berties well paid spin doctors, d same day bertie gets a whopping undeserved payrise d whole country is up in arms about this license...coincidence...i think not my friends...noel dempsey was found to have made a huge mistake re shannon did not resign....cowen looks like he's going to raise taxes in a tough budget... all in all a pitiful week for d government but never mind all that we are too angry over this new crackdown to pay attention to what is happening in the background...gross incompetence by d government who reward themseleves with pay raises....
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Do we have to fill in the ... blanks ourselves? :confused:
 
Ceist Beag said:
Not if they are effectively making 400K people law breakers overnight it's not - where's the fairness in that? Sure us license holders can all pious and take the moral high ground but how a bit of realism for those 400K not in our fortunate position?
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That is a fair point. While I agree with the new measures I believe it could have been implemented in a more practical manner.
 
Ceist Beag said:
Truthseeker let me make this a bit more real for you - people in rural areas want to go for a pint once in a while. They want to be responsible so instead of the bad old days of bringing their car they have their partner bring them instead and then ask their partner to collect them later on. So now in this pious new world of ours how do you expect this responsible couple to manage? Maybe we just drink at home and become an even more isolated community than we are already becoming?
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Surely the partner couldn't collect them later as would have to have a qualified driver with them from the house to the pub on the way to collect their partner?;)

Seriously, I have to say these rules make sense. People should prove that they are fit to drive before they can drive unaccompanied. I'm sure that there are people on a provisional license who are competent and for one reason or another doesn’t have a full license but the only way to differentiate is to classify drivers based on their license category.
 
briancbyrne said:
--"If this now means you cant get to work - tough"
- - I'd like you to say that face to face with somebody with dependants who stands to loose thier job, and cant make the mortgage payment the next time theres a hike - its very easy to judge in this faceless website - shame!
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So you're saying I should feel sympathy for people who deliberately miss test appointments, are not bothered to improve their driving status and who have otherwise demonstrated that they shouldn't be on the road?

Well I don't. What they are doing is illegal, immoral, lazy and dangerous - shame on them, I would suggest.

And if I came face to face with those provisional drivers who fall into this category I would have no problem telling them so.
 
clubman what i am saying is the timing of this announcment means that it deflects heat from the fact the government had a woeful week...do you not agree?
 
There does seem to be a bit of a holier than thou attitude on this thread from people with full licences. Have one myself so these new laws mean nothing to me but I do have a lot of sympathy for most provisional drivers. Its not their fault that the whole system has been a joke for many years and now suddenly they pay the price in a 5 day period. Its also not fair that some people seem to think that removing provisional drivers from the road, or giving them a right coloured licence will suddenly mean road deaths will be cut dramtically. Why are young people given full licences for successfully doing a three point turn? Why are full licence holders not required to resit a test every 5 years? Why do people still drink and drive? Why do people still speed?
 
Caveat said:
So you're saying I should feel sympathy for people who deliberately miss test appointments, are not bothered to improve their driving status and who have otherwise demonstrated that they shouldn't be on the road?

Well I don't. What they are doing is illegal, immoral, lazy and dangerous - shame on them, I would suggest.

And if I came face to face with those provisional drivers who fall into this category I would have no problem telling them so.
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well I'm sure there is someone close to home that falls into thiis bracket so maybe you could start there..... rather than spouting this "McDowell type" rhetoric in an anonymous capacity...he doesnt seem to have gone away !
 
briancbyrne said:
well I'm sure there is someone close to home that falls into thiis bracket so maybe you could start there..... rather than spouting this "McDowell type" rhetoric in an anonymous capacity...he doesnt seem to have gone away !
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What on earth are you going on about now?

Did you read my post properly at all? You do realise that I'm not directing this at provisional licence holders in general don't you?
 
I am puzzled at the people coming on here claiming they failed their test for a specific reason and that it wasn't fair. The testing system states that if you have a certain amount of grade 1 or grade 2 faults you fail and a grade 3 fault fails. The grade 3 faults are obviously when you are causing danger to others so why on earth should you pass your test if you are causing danger?????????
 
something has to be done to let the gov see how much of a catastrophy this is for many people, any ideas? Who do we contact? Does anyone know the link to the TDs email addresses or something?
 
jaybird said:
Don't know about others, but my point was that the tester wasn't even paying attention to what I was doing. She seemed to tick boxes at random throughout the test. I have no idea whether I did any good at all really. Doesn't really help me when it some to improving for a retest either.
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They deliberately behave as if they arent paying attention to just let you get on with it.
Why dont you have any idea how you did - were you not given the sheet with the various checkpoints on it afterwards?
 
A lot of people seem very angry about the short notice of this move. However, when Seamus Brennan was Minister for Transport he announced that the provisional licence system was going to be overhauled. Brennan left the Dept of Transport in September 2004 so the writing has been on the wall for at least three years now! (I can’t recall when he actually appeared on the Late Late Show.)

Anyone who was on a provisional then has had at least 3 opportunities to pass their test (at a 45 week wait). Furthermore anyone receiving a provisional since then should have made it an absolute priority to pass their tests at the earliest opportunity. This was the approach taken by my nephew who at the tender age of 19 proudly holds a full licence for both passenger cars and ridget trucks (and before you ask he sat these test in the west which has one of the longest waiting times in the country).

The system needs to be overhauled and in so doing it is going to really cheese off an heck of a lot of voters so no surprises that the Government finally got around to doing this in year 1 of what they hope will be a 5 year term.
 
If I read what's in the paper correctly, this means that from next Tuesday, a provisional driver's car insurance remains valid, but:

* If that driver is unaccompanied and gets stopped by a gard = driver sent home on foot & possible prosecution under the new rules

* If that driver is unaccompanied and is in an accident = insurance company can argue that the driver was outside the law and refuse to cover, plus possible prosecution if the gards get called

There must be 000s of people out there who, to stay within the law, will have to park up their cars next Tuesday and get the bus, reserving the car for evenings and weekend practice when they can find someone to accompany them?

One friend of mine on a provisional says he's cancelling his tax & insurance and taking his car off the road.

Another on a provisional says she thinks the law is completely unenforceable and intends to drive on the same.

A colleague who's partner only has a provisional says she doesn't if he's going to be able to do the school run and get to work anymore - they live in a commuter town in Kildare and he has to get to Bray every morning for work.

We'll see next Tuesday exactly what will happen but this is a huge change and it has no real lead in time. I actually agree that people learning to drive here should not do so unsupervised, but it seems that in our totally car-based society, this'll effectively take thousands who are currently driving off the roads.
 
IMHO these suggestions are as ridiculous as the suggestion that 400,000 drivers are taken off the roads 'overnight.'
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Put like that it doesn't sound too bad! :D Imagine how clear the roads will be.

and I note that [broken link removed] is after crashing this morning...
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Lol, there's irony in there.
 
Sammie110 said:
I am puzzled at the people coming on here claiming they failed their test for a specific reason and that it wasn't fair. The testing system states that if you have a certain amount of grade 1 or grade 2 faults you fail and a grade 3 fault fails. The grade 3 faults are obviously when you are causing danger to others so why on earth should you pass your test if you are causing danger?????????
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Do you really think the testers are completely fair? Failing loads of people creates a massive backlog, which means overtime for them .....I'm not certain about this but were they not threatening industrial action in the last couple of years too if the govt brought in more testers/ private test centres to help clear the backlog.

Also while you are a L driver you can't go on a motorway, you can pass your test and start driving on one straight away with no experienced driver beside you and having no experience on the motorway ....this is also stupid but may be changed now.

If they can't get the test times down then something like may every learner take lessons with a fully qualified instructor who can effectively give a "pre test" and give a pass fail rate on which the provisional holder can drive unaccompanied until their test and must pass first before applying for the test. If they fail then go through the whole process again? Something like this is more pheasable than saying come Tuesday morning you can't drive on your own!
 
Paulone said:
Another on a provisional says she thinks the law is completely unenforceable and intends to drive on the same.
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I'm inclined to think the same, and have no option but to work on that assumption. I can't see how the rules that apply (to a 2nd provisional licences) can be changed AFTER those licences were issued - it seems so innately unjust.

What are the chances that it will stand up in court?

Or am I missing the very point of an on-the-spot fine? that you have no chance to defend yourself?
 
About time the laws were enforced concerning learner drivers. These measures have been planned for years so they can't say they knew nothing about it! I knew this was going to happen someday and applied to sit the test down the country where there were shorter waiting lists. Having said that I don't think the driving test is a fair test. There is no set curriculum which is totally wrong. Long waiting lists are also totally unacceptable.
 
Minister Dempsey has just spoken on Radio 1 news at 1. If I was a prov licence holder I wouldn't have any worries!

The jist of his words were that the gardai will still be using their discretion. Sean O'Rourke put it to him that nothing really has changed... and Dempsey almost agreed.

It has always been against the law for 1st, 3rd and subsequent prov licence holders to drive unaccompanied. The new law is bringing 2nd prov holders into this group too. Having seen how closely the law has been policed over the past 40 years I don't see any major changes happening now that 2nd prov holders have been included.
 
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