Compensation Claim against me

The lesson to be learnt from this is that if the band are going to perform for money on a regular basis, then they need to have a back-up plan in place in case of things like illness of a band member, equipment failure etc.

I even tried to persuade my son's father to play drums and my son to play bass, but, again, not feasible.
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csirl said:
The lesson to be learnt from this is that if the band are going to perform for money on a regular basis, then they need to have a back-up plan in place in case of things like illness of a band member, equipment failure etc.
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It's not quite that easy though is it? To do that they would have to have another person regularly attending practices to learn the songs, almost like an understudy, which doesn't happen with bands realistically. It's the first time they had been booked by an Agent, and the most money they had ever been offered, so they were extremely keen to do the gig.

After all, even the big superstars cancel performances and tours due to illness, and they don't have replacements or back up plans!
 
Quick question... have your son's band ever been in a similar situation themselves where they have had no choice but to cancel and were dealing with the Engager (Venue) directly? If so, how has that been handled in terms of recompense? Do they have any friends who have been booked through agents previously and had similar problems? It might be worth getting them to check that out as there may be some useful pointers for this. As you say these things happen so there must be other people out there who have had similar problems.
 
so-crates said:
Quick question... have your son's band ever been in a similar situation themselves where they have had no choice but to cancel and were dealing with the Engager (Venue) directly? If so, how has that been handled in terms of recompense? Do they have any friends who have been booked through agents previously and had similar problems? It might be worth getting them to check that out as there may be some useful pointers for this. As you say these things happen so there must be other people out there who have had similar problems.
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They've cancelled gigs at short notice before, for varying reasons, and have never had any problems. As you say, it happens. To be honest, this is the only time they have been booked by an Agent, and most of their friends who are in bands haven't, so it's not easy to compare. Of interest, the gigs they've had to cancel before have been gigs that have sold tickets. This was a private party, no tickets sold, for 50 people in a Working Mans Club. Citizens Advice said it would be good to know if the party still went ahead, but I can't seem to find out. It's the first time I have ever heard of a band being sued for not performing, let alone for a genuine reason.
 
I just found this, from a Google Search. It's part of a Contract written between a Band and a Purchaser, which I guess must be the Venue. Anyway, maybe the Agent in my case should adopt this clause for their future contracts, seeing as there is nothing in their contract about cancellation by the Act whatsoever!

Cancellation - The Purchaser and the Band agree that this contract is not subject to cancellation unless both parties have agreed to such cancellation in writing. The agreement of the Band to perform is subject to detention by sickness, accidents, riots, strikes, epidemics, acts of God, or any other legitimate condition beyond control of the Band. If this occurs deposits shall be returned in full to Purchaser.
 
This band really has to grow up and start dealing with things. Once you start charging for your services, you have obligations - its no longer a bunch of kids just messing around.

Did you see the recent BBC Watchdog programme about a DJ who kept on no-showing when booked? Did you see the hurt it caused those people who were left without a DJ?
 
csirl said:
This band really has to grow up and start dealing with things. Once you start charging for your services, you have obligations - its no longer a bunch of kids just messing around.

Did you see the recent BBC Watchdog programme about a DJ who kept on no-showing when booked? Did you see the hurt it caused those people who were left without a DJ?
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Erm, I think that's a bit much to be honest. Firstly, they have never been paid much for gigs £20-£30 at most, the majority of them unpaid because they enjoy it so much. They weren't 'charging' £300 for this performance, the Agent offered it. Would you say no?? I think not! They had been spotted by the Agent following a regional win in the Live & Unsigned South Coast Idol Competition, and the Agent approached them months ago asking them if they would ever be interested in gigs/wedding receptions etc. Of course they said yes, because they want to gig as much as possible. The performance on 8th December was the very first offer from the Agent, and the Agent offered the fee.

They appreciated that the Venue was let down, which is why I, and they, tried desperately to sort out an alternative before cancelling. If they had simply just cancelled without trying then I would agree with you. But, the gig WAS NOT cancelled lightly at all. It was a very unfortunate situation, and one which they were deeply disappointed about themselves. They have apologised to the Agent by phone, email and in writing.
 
Update - I saw a Solicitor today. He read through the Contract and couldn't find anywhere that we are in breach of it, which is what I thought anyway. He was surprised at the amount of money the Agent is trying to claim, and advised that I write and ask for a full and detailed written breakdown of the claim, with full documentation and receipts for the costs that the Agent says it has lost. He said he wouldn't be at all surprised if the losses, if any, were considerably lower than the amount being claimed, and that if the Agent doesn't supply me with the details then the Court will certainly want to know how they have arrived at that figure and will want documented proof of it. He said that I shouldn't worry too much about it because it would seem as if the Agent is just trying to get money out of me/the band, and that all 3 Judges I would be likely to meet in the Court (depending on the day) are extremely fair and he felt would be completely sympathetic to the band's situation. He agreed with me that illness is an unforseen circumstance and that there is certainly nothing in the contract which determines what will happen if the Act cancels the performance, and said that the Agent should have insurance to cover such things anyway. Also, because it was a private party, with no tickets sold, the chances are the Venue managed to find a disco or something else for their entertainment. He said it would be good to find out from the Venue what, if anything, THEY did once the band had cancelled, and if they are indeed suing the Agent.

He said I do not need legal representation in Court at all, and would not be responsible for any costs either way as it's Small Claims.

I feel much better from seeing him, and he has basically reiterated what I already thought.
 
Here's an update, for anyone who has been following/advising in this thread.

I wrote to the Agent, asking them for a full account of their costing for the £1000 claimed, with documentation as proof. Today I got a letter, outlining the following costs:-

Employed staff on the day £200, Loss of Profit £250, Excess Phone Charge £10, Contract Costs £25, Post £1, Loss of next year's income @ 10% £550, Unnecessary use of Directors £150, Damaged reputation at 10% of the sub total £118.60, grand total £1532.91.

What a load of rubbish!! The only thing I would see as reasonable is the loss of profit at £250. They have said that the Venue have been valued customers and regularly used the Agents, and that last year the Agent profitted £5,500.00 from the Venue. Because the band cancelled the performance, the Venue have now cancelled their contract with the Agent, and therefore the Agent is suing us for 10% of what they predict they would earn from that Venue this year. How ludicrous is that? If they had such a profitable and solid relationship with the Venue, I find it hard to accept that the Venue cancelled the Agent's services SOLELY on the band cancelling due to someone being ill!

I have asked for documentary proof to be send of all of their costs, including accounts which show the profit from the Venue from last year, a copy of their phone bill, their staff costs, postage costs and contract costs (incidentally, the contract was sent via email as an attachment, which I had to print off and send back to them!!). As for the 'Unnecessary use of Directors', well that could mean anything I guess, so I've asked for clarification of that too.

In their letter they have said that they are going to contact agencies across the South of the UK and London to inform them about the band saying that the band are unreliable and lack conviction, and have said that as a consequence no-one will book them. That is defamation of character, and I have drafted a reply to them which includes a statement from me to that effect.

When I saw the Solicitor, he told me that the only thing he could see that the court 'may' say we have to pay is the recovery of their loss of profit, whatever that was (he was the one who advised me to get a breakdown). They have stated quite clearly that it was £250, and we would be happy to pay that in full settlement. However, they have indicated in their letter that they will be seeking the full amount they have claimed.

It's actually all quite laughable really, so I must see the funny side to get me through!

Comments please!
 
1,186 + 118.60 doesn't add up to 1,532.91 (should be 1,304.60)

They have picked a ridiculous and arbitrary amount for 'damage to reputation'

Make sure you mention in court that they have threatened to destroy your bands reputation and that that is their expressed goal.

Having said that I think the Act have responsibility.. they can't go around cancelling gigs. It doesn't matter what the reasons are unless they are excellent, i.e involved in an armed bank robbery, crashed into by a large truck etc.. sickness is ok, as you say some large superstars cancel gigs due to 'tiredness' but I imagine compensation is paid in those cases (and in the case of most, if not all, cancellations).

The band probably need insurance in the future in case they fail again to live up to their obligations.
 
JoeBallantin said:
1,186 + 118.60 doesn't add up to 1,532.91 (should be 1,304.60)

They have picked a ridiculous and arbitrary amount for 'damage to reputation'

Make sure you mention in court that they have threatened to destroy your bands reputation and that that is their expressed goal.

Having said that I think the Act have responsibility.. they can't go around cancelling gigs. It doesn't matter what the reasons are unless they are excellent, i.e involved in an armed bank robbery, crashed into by a large truck etc.. sickness is ok, as you say some large superstars cancel gigs due to 'tiredness' but I imagine compensation is paid in those cases (and in the case of most, if not all, cancellations).

The band probably need insurance in the future in case they fail again to live up to their obligations.
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Well, that was the first time they had ever been booked through an Agent, and I can tell you they will never do it again!! They get enough gigs without having to sign contracts. And of course they have responsibility, no-one is disputing that and I think the Agent should accept an offer of £250 as that is what he quotes as being his loss of profit. We do not see that as unreasonable. The rest, however, is a joke and none of it is backed up with any proof or documentation. He could be making it all up!!
 
Oh yep, forgot to add that they have added VAT of £228.31 to their claim as well!
 
I have sent a rather long letter to the Agents today, asking them to provide supporting documentation for their 'claim'. I have also sent a copy of their letter, with their threat of defamating the band, to the Court. I am hoping that once they realise they have dropped themselves in it, they might drop the claim altogether. The letter as a whole is very pointed at the band, constantly saying that they are unreliable and lack conviction. If they had simply cancelled, or not turned up, then yes, those comments would be justified, but they cancelled because someone was ill, and only after extensive and exhausted efforts to find a replacement.

I wonder at the Agent's professionalism in all of this. Seems they are resorting to schoolboy tactics!
 
It seems to me somewhat bizarre that you are being sued by this agent. Leaving aside the merits of his case I don't see how they have come to the conclusion that any contract exists between you and the agent. The contract existed between the band and the agent, by signing it on behalf of your son you did not suddenly become a party to it.
 
Just out of curiosity NikNox, exactly how established a business is this Agent? I keep getting flashes of a DelBoy-esque character (sans charm) every time I read another post from you.
Sounds to me that everyone you've discussed this with (including solicitor and yourself) bar the Agent feels that while they may be due some compensation for loss of income they are not due the amount they have ... to be frank, in my opinion.... dreamt up.
One thing I am curious about (besides the Unnecessary Use of Directors you will have to let us know what THAT means, I have a quite active imagination) is the staff costs. Were the band expecting to meet with staff supplied by the Agent or is the Agent referring to himself? And the Director, is the Agent a Director of his own company? Or is it a larger concern?
 
been thinking on this a bit further and presuming that his income from the venue last year was roughly per Act Profit (250) + Band Cost (300) you can guesstimate that the Agent may have booked ten acts there last year (22 if it refers to profit alone and assuming a similar profit on each Act), it would be interesting to contact the Venue and find out firstly how many acts they booked with him last year, confirm that there was a long-term contract (not just act to act) between the Venue and the Agent and confirm that is was cancelled as a direct result of this (and not as a result of continuing issues). In other words independently verify his claims, preferably in writing.
My other thought is what exactly is with the VAT? I am not terribly au fait with the arcane elements of value added tax but it seems odd to me that he is attempting to charge you VAT on this at all! Firstly if he is then surely he has to pass that on to Inland Revenue? And what exactly constitutes the goods or services supplied? I mean based on this he is basically paying Revenue, VAT collected, on supplying a reputation to be damaged (a little over £20 to HMRC)..... maybe I am missing the point.
Oh and I entirely agree with Joe Ballantin on the damages to reputation. If their reputation has been damaged then £100 is surely not sufficient. Besides why would damage to their reputation bear any relation to "costs" incurred?
 
I can't see what clause in the contract is supposed to have been broken. Has the agent been asked this?

Any proper contract should have covered non-performance, as in the contract extract googled above. Unless there is a specific reference to penalty, I would think there should be no penalty payable where the non-performance was caused by circumstances beyond the control of the Act.

I would not be inclined to make any offer, before the court case, particularly as it is the small claims court, but I am not a lawyer.
 
Was there an offer? , yes by the venue
Was it accepted? , yes by the band either in wiring or orally
Was there consideration , yes they offered money and in exchange you offered the services of a band ?
Valid contract is now in place and one which is known as a bilateral agreement in that you agree to supply a band and they agree to pay you a sum of money.

So now we have a valid contract , offer, acceptance and consideration so the problem occurs when one party fails to meeting their promise of the contract. That is you fail to turn up and fulfil you side or your promise to the other party. Well that is a clear breach or as we say a fundamental breach "A fundamental breach is a breach so fundamental that it permits the aggrieved party (booking agent) to terminate performance of the contract, in addition to entitling that party to sue for damages against the other party (you).
So lets do away with all the mitigating circumstances and my aunty worked in a solicitors office and the agreement did not include a get out clause or was written on a slate and it was not my signature it was a X. You failed in your promise and because of that the other party suffered loss. If you go to court you will lose all day long on this so I suggest that you offer €300 or so or offer a freebie and this time turn up.
 
In fairness to the OP Hasselhoff, she has accepted that the contract exists (between the band and the agent, the agent seems to have a separate contract with the venue to which the band was to be supplied by the agent) and conferred an obligation on the band and she accepts that it is reasonable for the agent to seek recompense for the breach of contract, she has stated as much.
Her concern is now with the amount and the reasonableness of what the agent is suing for. It is perfectly reasonable for her to query the amount the agent claims is due him for non-performance.
I do like your suggestion of a freebie performance though (and if the agent would accept it I'll bet she would be too!).
 
Hasslehoff said:
Was there an offer? , yes by the venue
Was it accepted? , yes by the band either in wiring or orally
Was there consideration , yes they offered money and in exchange you offered the services of a band ?
Valid contract is now in place and one which is known as a bilateral agreement in that you agree to supply a band and they agree to pay you a sum of money.

So now we have a valid contract , offer, acceptance and consideration so the problem occurs when one party fails to meeting their promise of the contract. That is you fail to turn up and fulfil you side or your promise to the other party. Well that is a clear breach or as we say a fundamental breach "A fundamental breach is a breach so fundamental that it permits the aggrieved party (booking agent) to terminate performance of the contract, in addition to entitling that party to sue for damages against the other party (you).
So lets do away with all the mitigating circumstances and my aunty worked in a solicitors office and the agreement did not include a get out clause or was written on a slate and it was not my signature it was a X. You failed in your promise and because of that the other party suffered loss. If you go to court you will lose all day long on this so I suggest that you offer €300 or so or offer a freebie and this time turn up.
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As So-Crates has so aptly pointed out, I am well past the point of querying the contents of the contract, and fully accept that services for which that contract was bound, were not delivered. I have never disputed that, apart from momentarily when I thought that because I had never received a signed copy from them it may be null and void. I now know different. Anyway, the band failed in their promise because of illness, not because they didn't turn up or some other unviable reason, unforseen and unfortunate. I accept that the Agent feels they deserve recompense, and when I spoke to my Solicitor (not my step-mother, but one I saw last week) he firstly could not see a breach of contract, but said that the Court 'may' ask for the Agent's lost profit to be recompensed, which the Agent states is £250. He also advised that I ask the Agent for full supporting documentation of his claim. I did so, and the Agent provided figures, with no supporting documentation at all, plus a statement that he feels 'obliged' to slander the band to all his agency associates in the Southwest of the UK and London, and said 'the likelihood is that no-one will ever use you because you are unreliable and lack conviction'. Now what does that say about the Agent? Hmmm, not much in my opinion. I do not dispute the loss of profit sum, it would deem reasonable to me and I don't see any problems with the band paying it. However, the Agent has also stated that he will only be willing to drop the Court case if a 'reasonable' offer is made, after harping on about how he could have been suing for 10 times as much as he has done (at total of £1500), so I doubt £250 will be enough for him. He is going to have to prove, with paperwork, the rest of his ridiculous claim for even the Judge to take him seriously. I actually hope this does go to Court now, because his letter is a joke, is rude and derogatory and he is openly admitting he is feeling obliged to slander the band. To me, he's dropped himself right in it with that one paragraph, and shows himself to be operating a Micky Mouse outfit which obviously lacks professionalism. I am sure that an educated Judge will see through it, and will most likely through the case out. I have remained polite, apologetic, and factual throughout my communications with the Agent (although it has been tempting to be as rude as he has been!), and have fought the corner of a band who were very excited about the performance but had to cancel because a member was ill. That member also has the medical certification to prove it. They are far from unreliable and lacking in conviction, and I think that the chances now of them offering a freebie through this Agent are zilch!
 
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