Children selling gambling products door-to-door

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mathepac

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Doing a few chores outside on Sunday, I was approached on my driveway by two male children who asked me if I wanted to give them €2 to enter my details in a draw. They were carrying small brown envelopes with sticky labels on the front. The idea was that I write my name/phone number on the front of the envelope which then became an entry in a draw of some kind. I didn't ask the lads the details of the mechanisms of the draw, the prizes, or what percentage went out in prizes and how much was retained to support the cause they were advocating for. I didn't ask if the draw was licensed.


I asked if their parents knew where they were and that what they were doing was gambling, that they were too young to engage in such an activity, and I asked why they weren't accompanied by an adult. They responded that their parents gave them the envelopes and “sent them out” to sell them. I pointed out that I wasn't "giving out" to them, that I could be wrong in my assessment of the situation, but to pass my concerns back to their parents. I said they were free to note the number of my house and their parents were free to contact me if they wished. No irate adults arrived at my door.


I see more of these envelopes at cash registers in shops and filling stations and I'm concerned about the legality of them. In this country, we have a serious gambling problem, if we're to believe the ads on the radio and telly featuring prominent sports personalities, and the last thing we need is yet another opportunity to normalize gambling for the children in our society.


Apart from the gambling issue, I have parenting and child protection concerns here.


Should I contact the Guards? I remember when we sold raffle tickets as kids, printed across the bottom of the receipt we issued to the gambler, was information about the permit granted by a named Garda Superintendant, in other words, it was all licensed and above board. I see no evidence of policing authority approval for the sale of these plain brown wrappers.


Thoughts, please.
 
Just some of my thoughts:-
1. Why get the Gardai involved? You have an obligation to your family and to yourself. Why spearhead a “cause” that inevitably you don’t know how it will end. Let’s say you go the distance and so do the Gardai - there’s a good chance your name, occupation and address will be given to a news/newspaper reporter. Suddenly, yours and you are exposed “bareback.” Do you need that? It’s what happened to me some years ago.
2. The parents of the children should know how their kids spend their time. It’s time for them to take responsibility and resolve the situation.
3. Gambling Issue:- Likely, we don’t even have enough knowledge of gambling problems even to scrape the surface of the subject. What can you do even?
4. The anti alcohol brigade has had the price of alcohol minimised which was to reduce the problem. We discussed it on this forum and guess what! Ireland’s alcohol problems have got worse according to a recent news item. We can’t curtail dangerous behaviour by our Road users - and you think the Gardai are going to resolve issues such as kids selling “chance” items.
5. You can say “No” and if everybody did the same this particular problem you raised will go away.
 
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Did you even ask what it was for? Sounds like a fund raiser for a local team.

While you may be technically correct in calling it gambling, a club fund raiser is at the other end of the scale to betting on matches or slot machines. My club are doing a raffle for Coldplay tickets (DM me if you want to enter ;) ), and so far we aren't aware of anyone spending their mortgage money on it.

I'm sure the kids have already reported back on what you said. Taking further action will only make people view you as the neighbourhood crank.
 
I asked if their parents knew where they were and that what they were doing was gambling, that they were too young to engage in such an activity, and I asked why they weren't accompanied by an adult. They responded that their parents gave them the envelopes and “sent them out” to sell them. I pointed out that I wasn't "giving out" to them, that I could be wrong in my assessment of the situation, but to pass my concerns back to their parents. I said they were free to note the number of my house and their parents were free to contact me if they wished.
I hope for your sake that you had a witness to this exchange.
 
Surely the first thing you would have asked for was who was the draw for. ? I've never seen an envelope like that in a shop, no shortage of GAA and football club lotto tickets if you want one but they all have a permit.

Kids up the road from me did a lemonade stand and selling cookies one evening over the summer, probably something they saw in a movie as they were only about 5, gave then a euro for a biscuit or 2 but I never stopped to check the health and safety credentials. Perhaps I should have and reported them?
 
Let’s say you go the distance and so do the Gardai - there’s a good chance your name, occupation and address will be given to a news/newspaper reporter. Suddenly, yours and you are exposed “bareback.” Do you need that? It’s what happened to me some years ago.
On cases where only a couple of Gardai would have this detail do you really think they are going to risk their jobs for such a non-story?
 
While you may be technically correct in calling it gambling, a club fund raiser is at the other end of the scale to betting on matches or slot machines.
The law is a ferociously technical beast, which is why we have highly trained and paid legal professionals to do the enforcement and interpretation. The proverbial Séan & Síle citizen aren’t competent to do that job. Which why there is an obligation on us to report what we see as wrongdoings and have them investigated.


That last sentence is of course my interpretation of what it means to be a citizen of the State; that status has responsibilities as well as privileges. Based on the opinions of the majority of contributors to this thread I should not report an animal being beaten by its owner, vehicles without blue badges parking in disabled parking spots, cars parked on pavements and on double yellow lines, inconveniencing others, motorists and pedestrians alike. I should just get on with my own life.


There used to be a theme about “doing the right thing” in here. Sadly being wrapped up in selfishness seems to have displaced it.
 
On cases where only a couple of Gardai would have this detail do you really think they are going to risk their jobs for such a non-story?
I don't want to speak for the leper but given the reference to the Gardai "going the distance", he presumably envisaged court proceedings...
 
Did you even ask what it was for? Sounds like a fund raiser for a local team.
Not the remotest interest in what it was for, from sending Aunty Mary to Lourdes or Ming Flanagan to space.
I'm sure the kids have already reported back on what you said. Taking further action will only make people view you as the neighbourhood crank.
And I’m just as sure that their parents, if that’s what you want to call them, care so little for their children, felt it was just too much trouble to follow up.
 
Sports club lottos are ubiquitous in my neck of the woods and also in other rural parts of the country which I've travelled.

The Gardai keep a very close eye on them and up-to-date permits are absolutely a pre-requisite.

Some years ago, a caller came selling dodgy-looking tickets at my place of work. We sent them packing and reported the incident to the Gardai who were very diligent in following it up.
 
I don't want to speak for the leper but given the reference to the Gardai going the distance, he presumably envisaged court proceedings...
There's nothing to go the distance on. Draws fall under gaming rather than the lottery regulations in the act, so there is no requirement on having the operators details printed on tickets. Also, there is no offence defined regarding the sale of such tickets by minors. There's a reason it's common practice all over the country!

Even if it there was an offence and it did go to court, why would a Garda take the risk?
 
And I’m just as sure that their parents, if that’s what you want to call them, care so little for their children, felt it was just too much trouble to follow up.
Perhaps consider their perspective. Their kids come home saying some grumpy old man gave out to them for trying to do what they were asked? I'd imagine most good parents would simply advise their children to avoid said man in the future.

Note I'm not saying you're a grumpy man, but it's a safe assumption the kids thought so :D
 
There's nothing to go the distance on. Draws fall under gaming rather than the lottery regulations in the act, so there is no requirement on having the operators details printed on tickets. Also, there is no offence defined regarding the sale of such tickets by minors. There's a reason it's common practice all over the country!

Even if it there was an offence and it did go to court, why would a Garda take the risk?
Ask Leper! o_O:D
 
The law is a ferociously technical beast, which is why we have highly trained and paid legal professionals to do the enforcement and interpretation. The proverbial Séan & Síle citizen aren’t competent to do that job. Which why there is an obligation on us to report what we see as wrongdoings and have them investigated.
Problem here is that you have no idea if a wrong-doing has occurred or not because you did not enquire and get sufficient facts because, as you say, you did not have the remotest interest in what it was for. For all you know, the kids could be selling tickets for a legitimate raffle or lotto, with a permit for it. you may consider it as a "wrong-doing" but it doesn't mean it was illegal.

So if you feel so strongly, have you made a Garda complaint and what was the outcome?
 
It is not my responsibility to investigate potential wrong doing or to gather additional facts. I am not a vigilante.

I have completed documenting and mailing my observations and concerns to local law enforcement and child protection services by registered post.
 
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