Child Benefit Compliance

RedOnion

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Which can be filled out where? Anywhere in the developed world?
The purpose of the postal letters is to confirm that you still reside at that address, in Ireland.
Have you ever actually seen one of these forms?
 

Gordon Gekko

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??? What does any of this mean?

The issue is, unless im way off track, the inefficient postal checks for child benefit that see genuine recipients cut off because they didn't respond within 21 days because they were out of the country, or forgot, or the response got lost in the post, and how such a system is old hat.

What you are proposing is racial profiling which would render the DEASP to accusations of discrimination.
On the otherhand, if they issued 300 letters, with 270 going to Irish claimants, 20 to Polish, 10 to Nigerian etc, then that could be defended as proportionate profiling based on nationality and population, and not discriminatory.
Read the thread.

A previous poster implied that he/she was being repeatedly targeted due to perception.

Profiling based on risk makes sense.
 
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cremeegg

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What you are proposing is racial profiling which would render the DEASP to accusations of discrimination.
I am fairly sure this happens already. We get the compliance letter 3 or 4 times a year. We don't know of any other family where this happens. We have always thought it is because my wife is not Irish.
 

RedOnion

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I am fairly sure this happens already. We get the compliance letter 3 or 4 times a year. We don't know of any other family where this happens. We have always thought it is because my wife is not Irish.
It is already happening. I'm in same situation as you.
 

Folsom

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Read the thread.

A previous poster implied that he/she was being repeatedly targeted due to perception.

Profiling based on risk makes sense.
I beg your pardon, I hadn't read that post.

This looks like a strong case of discriminatory racial profiling based on nationality. It is not risk based if the claimant is within their rights to claim child benefit and has repeatedly shown that to be the case. This is typical of the inefficiency of the current system leading to false targeting of legitimate claimants, based on nationality.
 

Folsom

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It's nationality-based profiling, based on risk factors.

DEASP has no idea what race you are.
You are correct.

However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the vast, vast, majority of a people who identify themselves with a nationality also identify themselves with that race.
There are of course many exceptions.

However, technically, you are correct so what is occurring in some instances appears to be a case of discrimination based on nationality profiling.
 

Gordon Gekko

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It sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Say your job is to find people who are claiming Child Benefit but living in a different country.

Of course you’d start with people who aren’t actually Irish.
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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Ireland has very high migratory flows of people with children. As a result DEASP are particularly heavy handed.

We once moved abroad for a while. I was organised and got my wife to write them a letter in advance. She dated it 15 March and said something like "On 30 March I will leave Ireland with my child....".

They cut off child benefit from 15 March!

There followed a lot of phone calls and letters and in the end they re-instated the payment for half a month when we sent them copies of the flight tickets.
 

Folsom

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Practically speaking, the only job there is to stop fraud of ineligible welfare claims, regardless of race, nationality, gender, etc

Using a claimants nationality is a tool that can be used in targeting fraud where there is reasonable information that suggests possible fraud being committed.

Given however, the blunt nature of profiling people by their nationality, and by the sounds of things, very little else, DEASP are opening themselves to accusations of discrimination against those of foreign nationality.
Im not suggesting that there is some evil seer at the top of DEASP deliberately targeting foreigners, regardless of the information in front of them.
Im suggesting that by default, the system is wholly inadequate, antiquated, and as a consequence, has morphed into an exercise that discriminates against people of foreign nationality despite the information already provided to DEASP.
 

Gordon Gekko

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There is such a thing as taking PC nonsense too far.

The task is to identify people who live in foreign countries but claim Child Benefit in Ireland.

It makes perfect sense to target foreign people in the first instance.
 

Folsom

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It makes perfect sense to target foreign people in the first instance.
And once a foreign person has been targeted in the first instance, and subsequently proves that they are still residing in this country, what then?
Send them another letter three months later based on their nationality? And once they subsequently prove they are still residing in this country, what then?
Send them another letter in three months time? And once they subsequently prove....?

See the point im trying to make?

Nationality is a tool that can be used to target possible cases of fraud...it is not a symptom of fraud. By repeatedly targeting individuals based on their nationality, and apparently not much else, it is providing grounds for discrimination.
And a terrible waste of resources.
 

Folsom

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You'd only know that if you had access to their internal analysis.

I don't, and I suspect you don't either.
True. Im only going on what has been put in front of me here - which is amounting to a terrible waste of resources, wouldn't you agree?
 

RedOnion

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True. Im only going on what has been put in front of me here - which is amounting to a terrible waste of resources, wouldn't you agree?
So you're basing your opinions solely in what's posted to this thread?
Talk about a waste of resources...
 

Folsom

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So you're basing your opinions solely in what's posted to this thread?
Talk about a waste of resources...
Specifically to the posts made in this thread, I have formed an opinion that suggests a process of discriminatory profiling based on nationality may be occurring.
I am open to being dissuaded from that. But without access to the internal analysis of the DEASP - and there is no reason why I should have access, or if I did, I doubt if it would be for me to share on these pages, I can only base my opinion on what is put in front of me.

What, or whose resources are being wasted here?
 

RedOnion

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What, or whose resources are being wasted here?
Sorry, you're far too modest. It's your brilliant mind I'm talking about being wasted.

Just from 3 anonymous posters, suggesting they are receiving more compliance requests than others because they / their spouse is a non-national, you've been able to deduce that DEASP is wasting resources. And that's without knowing anything else about their circumstances, or even having a cursory glance at the comprehensive annual report from DEASP detailing their fraud detection levels.

I really think you're on to something here.
Rather than trying to convince us mere mortals, you need to contact your TD, and get them to raise this as a parliamentary question with the minister for social protection. It's the only way you'll get to the truth, and stop this waste of tax payers money.
 
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