Bitcoin. Is it a deliberate con ?

Firefly said:
Have you lost your mind? Ever seen those L'Oréal ads? We're worth it dude. We don't have to live within our means.

We can borrow, after all "that's what governments do"
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I am German so debt avoidance is part of my DNA
 

We had a very weak hand as we were borrowing as a country all through the CT and needed to borrow much more post Sept 2008 to maintain the dole, old age pensions and permanent public sector workers. Living beyond our means in the truest sense.

If you compare the Irish "living on the never-never" with that of Estonia (who came out of decades of socialism/communism) the difference couldn't be more stark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Estonia#The_impact_of_the_financial_crisis_of_2008

On July 2009, Estonian VAT was increased from 18% to 20%.[33] On 9 August 2011, just days after Standard & Poor's downgraded the credit rating of the United States, it raised Estonia's rating from A to AA-. Among the factors S&P cited as contributing to its decision was confidence in Estonia's ability to "sustain strong economic growth."[34]

For Estonia, the late-2000s recession was comparatively easier to weather, because Estonia's budget has consistently been kept balanced, and this meant that Estonia's public debt relative to the country's GDP has remained one of the lowest in Europe.

The answer is obvious to me - we should aim as a country to eradicate all dependence on debt. Then we have control of our own destiny.
 
Firefly said:
The answer is obvious to me - we should aim as a country to eradicate all dependence on debt. Then we have control of our own destiny.
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That would be amazing! but it won't happen will it? as soon as they can politicians will spend as much possible buying voters, like they did before. I figure the austerity was done as a last resort, if the government could have avoided it by borrowing more they would have - they had to be forced by the EU, right?
 
Oh dear I seem to have triggered a "Big A" Fork in the thread.

The government has spent more on services than it took in taxes over those years. That is not austerity at the national level.

It will always be the case that but for borrowing that little bit more some folk die.

The bitcoin thought experiment has many variations. If the people of Ireland had become the biggest hoarders of bitcoin on the planet my guess is that Satoshi would have cashed in her chips by now and the bubble would have burst (as it inevitably will per Paul Krugman et al). How many people would have died as a result of diverting all that money into tulips?
 

Agree. When the Troika came in I sighed a sigh of relief. We are still bound by EU rules and that makes me happy.

You should read that link on Estonia, it's fascinating. Can you imagine if we didn't have to spend almost the same amount of money each year financing our national debt (not reducing mind, just financing!) as we spend on education, what kind of a country we could have?

I am always reminded of the marches in the streets about "bailing out the banks". Such bailouts represent a whopping 20% of our national debt. The rest was Paddy living beyond his means.

Aaaaanyway, back to Bitcoin!
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
The government has spent more on services than it took in taxes over those years. That is not austerity at the national level.
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In small part due to the debt we have to service. What would a thread about ireland in the moneymakeover forum look like

You're suggesting a variation I've never mentioned and that I don't support. I'm also not advising anyone buy bitcoin right now.

I suspect Satoshi will never move those coins or they would have already by now, I mean what are they waiting for?
 
fpalb said:
In small part due to the debt we have to service. What would a thread about ireland in the moneymakeover forum look like
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I said it spent more on services than it took in taxes. I thought it was clear that I was excluding debt servicing. Please don't become like Water and Black Tea where everything has to be semantically perfect
 
Having just discovered that bitcoin can be forked, I am more convinced than ever that it is a scam. Forking is being discussed, maybe explained on a bitcoin cash thread.
 
I see Emil Oldenberg has sold all his [broken link removed], switching to bitcoin cash instead. Is this him predicting the start of the end of Bitcoin or more an endorsement of bitcoin cash being more viable as a currency and so has a better change of short term growth?
 
I'd wager he knows the crypto space a lot better than anyone here. His points on transaction fees and lead times are quite valid, without those being addresses, bitcoin will never be viable as a currency.
 
Merowig said:
Austerity means you live within your means, you do not borrow to finance your lifestyle. What is wrong with that?
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I would take a different view. I consider austerity to be the consequence of living beyond your means. Prosperity is attainable by living within your means.
 
cremeegg said:
Having just discovered that bitcoin can be forked, I am more convinced than ever that it is a scam. Forking is being discussed, maybe explained on a bitcoin cash thread.
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That was somewhat my sentiment last June just after buying bitcoin for first time. My initial reaction 'gimme back my money!". But then I went to the sources that I relied on that persuaded me to buy BTC in first place - the tech heads.
While I couldnt get my head around the terminology, there was no prevailing sentiment of fear or panic or that this could kill crypto. The opposite in fact, more a case of this was something that just had to happen and it was time to get on with it.
In my lay mans head way of thinking, I compare it to a car manufacturer recalling a model because the airbag wasnt fitted properly (accepting that this might be way off track!)
That was last June, there was a fork in July and another in Oct.

I should add, there was very little speculation about what it would do to the price also. I found this refreshing, discussions were focus based on the technical effects.
 
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