Why should the price of bitcoin go to zero, if the price of gold hasn't gone to zero over the millennia. Neither have any intrinsic value.tecate
You can't calculate the price of BTC because it has no value.
The value is zero. The eventual price will be zero.
I thought I could predict the limits of the stupidity of the BTC advocates, but I was wrong. the stupidity appears unlimited.
But fill your boots, try and big up what you perceive to be an absurdity - like you did when BTC was at $5K, $10K....and oh yeah, let's not forget $20K Duke.
Why should the price of bitcoin go to zero, if the price of gold hasn't gone to zero over the millennia.
In terms of the advancement of the discussion, price forecasting is very much the uninteresting part of the equation that has already been done to death and won't advance anyone's understanding. It's a speculative activity that can be summarized as follows. You believe that BTC has zero utility and it's going to zero (ultimately). You believe that BTC has utility and has an ever growing network effect, then its intuitive that its price will increase given its a finite asset. I really don't think its useful to get into models and calculations (beyond what has already been covered here ad nauseum in the past), as that relies on ifs, buts and other speculative elements.Someone posted a forecast, calculation, that BTC would be between €500k and millions.
Tecate -you are saying that it was not a forecast.
But now you, they are saying that they were only joking?
The BTC forecasts have been so bizarre, I see no reason not to have believed it was someone making a genuine forecast.
Sounds like a pragmatic view to hold on the topic as far as I can see. On this aspect of it, of course BTC is one particular type of asset. It's a tool in the toolbox - nobody is suggesting for a second that it has to replace other asset types. Every such asset type brings its own unique characteristics to the party.I like my investments to have some intrinsic value. Part ownership in a company, bricks and mortar sound about right.
I don't always get things right...my bad.You so wrong here, Tecate! From the link you helpfully provided yesterday, the Duke has been rubbishing BTC when it was $180. Go figure.
You have declined my request to express an opinion on the very topical outrageous suggestion that it is an "extremely conservative scenario where bitcoin would be $500,000". You have excused yourself by saying that your area of expertise is climate change. Fair enough, but I am at odds to understand why you chose to play the man by going back to a post in 2015. Let me remind you of my position then as it is now. I was and still am 100% behind the vast majority of experts and unanimous Nobel Laureate consensus on this matter. Their views on this have not changed one iota as bitcoin rose from 1 pizza per 25 to $67,000 and back to less than half that.You so wrong here, Tecate! From the link you helpfully provided yesterday, the Duke has been rubbishing BTC when it was $180. Go figure.
The BTC forecasts have been so bizarre, I see no reason not to have believed it was someone making a genuine forecast.
If bitcoin continues to grow to the extent that it captures any significant percentage of the worlds wealth then the 500k number is conservative, as the data showed. The number just seems astronomically big because 1 bitcoin is a much larger unit than we're used to measuring things in. If you measure gold by the ton instead of the ounce it has a huge price too.You have declined my request to express an opinion on the very topical outrageous suggestion that it is an "extremely conservative scenario where bitcoin would be $500,000".
If bitcoin continues to grow to the extent that it captures any significant percentage of the worlds wealth then the 500k number is conservative, as the data showed. The number just seems astronomically big because 1 bitcoin is a much larger unit than we're used to measuring things in. If you measure gold by the ton instead of the ounce it has a huge price too.
In all honesty I've no other way to think about it. The price will just be a function of demand, and there's no hard limit on that beneath the meme of everything divided by 21 million. All I can do is try to evaluate whether there will be demand and the best way of thinking about that is in relation to the current demand, which the current price corresponds to.Any views on the $11m speculation? Please don't answer that if it reaches that market penetration then it will be $11m; that is tautological.
If bitcoin continues to grow to the extent that it captures any significant percentage of the worlds wealth then the 500k number is conservative,
First you calculate Bitcoin's 'market cap' by multipying supply of bitcoin by current price and I get about $600b (the $400b value in the diagram below is out of date)How do you measure the current percentage of the worlds wealth held in Bitcoin? Is there a chart showing this since its inception?
And this is also why consideration of the 'everything bubble' as per that guys write-up was well worth delving into. To my knowledge it has not been discussed here previously when most other items (such as price forecasting/modelling, etc.) have been done to death without reaching anything other than polarized conclusions. Does anyone deny that a monetary premium has developed where a whole host of other assets are concerned as a direct result of monetary policy over the past decade or more?First you calculate Bitcoin's 'market cap' by multipying supply of bitcoin by current price and I get about $600b (the $400b value in the diagram below is out of date)
Then from the earlier mentioned "Bitcoin's Role in Deflating the Everything Bubble" article, that is compared to estimates of everything else:
View attachment 7669
So it can't just be a garden variety 'inflationary premium'. We've only had run away inflation the past couple of years. He's referring to a monetary premium - as a direct result of the monetary policy that has been pursued by central banks. You mention property - and its a classic example. Are those demographic factors true everywhere in the western world - because property has become unaffordable in lots of places for the 20 somethings. If incomes were ahead of that, they wouldn't be priced out so that's not it.@tecate if you insist. Obviously there is an inflationary premium, that is just the debasement of the numeraire which increases the value of everything including baked beans. The guy seems to be pointing to something in addition to inflation. Something about money itself is no longer considered as an asset and so other assets go up to fill the vacuum. I would expect this to manifest itself in increasing P/E ratios, he didn't go there. Clearly house prices have surpassed inflation. I suspect there are other demographic factors besides a monetary premium. More importantly the great gains in productivity have meant incomes have beaten inflation and this obviously feeds into the price of property.
Disagree entirely - monetary premium has been talked about a lot. I haven't time right now but I'm sure I could point to a wealth of discussion on the topic.I suggest that the guy's analysis is a tad superficial and was contrived to get to his main point - the outrageous potential for the bitcoin price.
I think about this a bit. So the economic theory driving monetary policy seems to be that you don't want people to have savings, instead you encourage people to invest instead of save by having inflation devalue savings. This seems to assume that investment is generally productive, or in other words that there is sufficient useful stuff to invest all that capital in, and you also end up at kind of "infinite growth" narrative that modern society is based on. Always borrowing from tomorrow with the assumption that tomorrow's growth will cover what we're spending today.Does anyone deny that a monetary premium has developed where a whole host of other assets are concerned as a direct result of monetary policy over the past decade or more?
First you calculate Bitcoin's 'market cap' by multipying supply of bitcoin by current price and I get about $600b (the $400b value in the diagram below is out of date)
Then from the earlier mentioned "Bitcoin's Role in Deflating the Everything Bubble" article, that is compared to estimates of everything else:
View attachment 7669
Ok but you asked earlier what progress since 2021 - when all hell has broken loose, in addition to what was already going to be a classic hype cycle crash for bitcoin. To get into those trillion dollar market cap ranges the bigger money will be necessary. That means a spot ETF for bitcoin in the US among other things. People tend to throw things out if they're not meeting the timeframe they have in mind but these things take time. Whatever way you look at it, there's a hell of a lot more going on re. bitcoin now than when these discussions started 5 years ago. Bear in mind also that we've also just witnessed the 55 year overnight success that has been AI.The above is just showing BTC as a very small part of Global Asset values with speculation that if it takes some of that share it will lead to a greater price.
You can make very nice jewelry out of gold. Gold also has useful properties for coating certain medical components. I've heard its also widely used in electronics due to its conductive properties. Gold teeth, hell you can use one of those lovely bars as a door stop.Why should the price of bitcoin go to zero, if the price of gold hasn't gone to zero over the millennia. Neither have any intrinsic value.
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