Breez remittance app - using lightning, oracle database, bla bla whatever it says its using.........its a remittance app.....
Do you want to have an intelligent discussion or do you just want to rant and vent? As was pointed out to you, you are conflating a number of things.
Breez and
Phoenix are lightning network wallets that can be downloaded and used by anyone to transact bitcoin. Lightning Network is a secondary bitcoin payments layer just like visa is a payments layer that runs on top of the conventional system.
Strike is a lightning network-based payments platform at an embryonic startup stage which concerns itself largely with remittances and cross border payments.
we've been talkng about an at scale national payments system that supports 1000's of transactions a second such that it could replace cash/mastercard/visa.......
Correction. You've unsuccessfully hopped from one objection to the next and that brought you to a totally uninformed and outdated point of attack where you were'nt even aware of the existence of the lightning network payments layer. Secondly, over the course of 4 years of discussion here I have never seen anyone talk in terms of replacing cash/mastercard/visa. I have seen consideration of decentralised cryto-based alternatives being provided as a
choice for ordinary people.
and you use a start up remittance app as an example of how crytpo is ready.
Correction. You said that today, it would take 25 minutes to pay for a loaf of bread and I corrected you on your lack of knowledge on the subject. A loaf of bread can be bought with bitcoin over the lightning network with the transaction completing somewhere between a timeframe of milliseconds and 60 seconds. That's what I said. You swore blind that its not possible when it is.
Remittances are a completely separate item. As Mallers' startup shows us, those too can be facilitated over the bitcoin-based lightning network payment layer.
With regard to throughput, visa averages around 25,000 transactions/second. It's technical limitations see it top out at 50,000 transactions/second. My understanding is that lightning network is capable of infinitely greater throughput than that. However, as I've always stated with the development of this whole sector, work is ongoing to build out the technology, its eco-system, UX, education, regulation - the list goes on. Notwithstanding that, lighting network is at a point where it can and should be used at scale. What you're trying to suggest is that nobody should possibly consider it until its limits have been fully tested. Well, there's only one way for that to happen. What you're trying to suggest is akin to saying in 1990, nobody should dare offer anyone dial-up internet - and these tech guys shouldn't offer it to you. Let them come back to you when they have gigabit fibre. That's what you're saying - and in no way do I agree. Lightning development has been slow - I believe that there will still be some technical challenges to be overcome as it is fully deployed but none which would stop me from using it today. And as I mentioned to you, I have been using it.
Now if your opinion on the back of that is that i'm in 'cloud cuckoo land', know that my view is that what is as clear as night and day with your approach to this subject is that you're working backwards from your dismissal of this innovation to find whatever you can to validate your argument. And we can go round the houses all you want if that's what you want to spend time on - but I suggest we park it up right there.
@tecate the main thing I love about your post. Which give me hope that your not a complete cultist......is that you completely side stepped the substance of my 250 word post which was really Bitcoin Beach - i.e. BS Beach........and your smart and dug around that website/press section and googled the hell out of it I'm sure looking for substance & counter factuals to show its 'going great' and adoption is increasing............but there isnt any updates. I think your smart enough to have had enough doubt planted in your mind that I'm right on this one.
The flagrant ignorance on display is breathtaking. I addressed your point - and I'll do so again for clarity. Your point is that the Bitcoin Beach project is not significant in terms of scale. My point is that I never claimed any such use at scale. However, it is an active demonstration of how bitcoin can be used on a day to day basis going forward.
As regards your claims that I've 'googled the hell out of it', I think you're talking about yourself seeing as you weren't aware of it from the get go. I don't need to 'google the hell out of it' - as I've been aware of the project since its early stages. I've talked to people who have given me first hand accounts of what the project is about and what's going on there.
And yet whilst that project is embryonic, without it - there would not have been this proposal that the El Salvadoran government is now putting forward. That showcase - presumably together with what Mallers claimed his Lightning-Network based platform can bring in terms of value add as it relates to remittances - led to said proposal. Other than that, it's a credible demonstration of how ordinary people can be empowered to send/receive currency when the banking system that you say is glorious has failed them.
Its a PR stunt. Community led!!?!?! how? where you see that, cuase it said it on the site? - its led by some millionaire bitcoin fanatic who wanted to print a press release and give the Miami cult something to talk about.
It looks like you're going to continue to claim that - fine. I disagree - and going on the line you're taking (unless you have some new information), we won't be agreeing on this topic. Mike Petersen had no notion of some future conference in Miami a few years ago when he started this project. It's completely moronic to suggest such a thing. I honestly don't see ANY financial upside for him - but if you're aware of one, then please let us know.
And one other thing - on the one hand you claim that i'm furiously searching the internet re. the project and on the other its wrong because I've had friends who have given me first hand accounts with regard to the project. Are you reading your own posts - because I'd suggest you might want to review your cause for complaint!!!
you've been hoodwinked if you think there's a village right now in El Salodvor where people are running around right now paying for haircuts/groceries
Ok, so when I arrive there in November inshallah, are you saying that I won't be able to pay for anything with bitcoin? I'm scared to ask but I'll push through the fear with a follow up question. If the answer to the former is that I won't be able to buy anything with BTC, have you've based that on information that you..
A. got first hand from those with knowledge of the project
OR
B. googled the hell out of it
OR
C. received that enlightenment through a vision or some such
Apparently the first two are off limits - but maybe you have news on the last one.
Bitcoin beach is a PR stunt..........an alice (tecate) in wonderland website creation.........I showed you what was behind the curtain...... nothing......two puff piece advertorials in Jan 2020 and thats it..........you've been hoodwinked if you think there's a village right now in El Salodvor where people are running around right now paying for haircuts/groceries
Yes, we know - a 'stunt' - the word appears on this page 10 times now but feel free to tell us again and I guess I'll come back and clarify that I disagree. Apparently you know this through one of the means outlined above. And yet, despite the project going hand in glove with the ongoing development of the lighting network, a secondary effect has been this proposal from the President to make bitcoin legal tender for the first time. Mike Petersen must be feeling awfully foolish round about now what with the effects that will have inside of and outside of the borders of El Salvador.
.........guess the donor wasn't that generous a few thousands dollars would cover this circular nonsense and few crypto student volunteers..........look at the site for christ sakes 
