Biased Media!

Did anyone see the two incidents on the news last night regarding thugs?
The first was about a youth involved in anti-social behaviour form Dundalk who received a beating in his house! The news crew interviewed his mother and some members of the community who all condemned the behaviour! Throughout the report, Republican involvement was insinuated.And this morning the papers are claiming that the IRA had something to do with it-possibly trying to impact on the Leeds Castle talks which will hopefully bring a lasting peace to this island!
The next news story was of a 94-year old Cobh man who is closing his shop which he has been running for 8 decades after being robbed recently. No public opinions were sought in this story and it was given very little time compared to the previous story!
Should the public care more for a little scumbag than a hard working man who is having to quit is job??

Bias

Don't forget that most of the lads in Montrose were all SF the Workers Party lot for years. They'd all have a special interest in this sort of behaviour

I heard that young lad's mother on the radio yesterday, when asked had he been involved in any crime she repied no but he has a few "motoring offences" - joyriding. He was sent a letter warning him to desist from anti-social behaviour but reoffended.
Now I don't know about this case but if a scumbag, call a spade a spade, continues damaging public\private property, intimidating people etc. the gardai are powerless (up to the juvenile court, wrap on the knuckles for the fella who smiles and walks straight out to do the same again). So while I could never condone the wrecking a family home I'd shed no tears for this little hard-man getting a mother and father of a beating. He'll think twice next time he is up to no good.
I'd mail merge that letter an post thousands of them out.

beatings

Well ttraces it sounds like you may have had personal experience of these kind of scumbags. I can well understand your anger.

This is exactly the kind of action that SF is often accused of - I've seen it many times on this BB.

In my view the people who slag off SF because of some alleged involvement in punishment beatings have usually never lived in a rough underprivileged council estate. They are more likely to come from the 'leafy suburbs' where the worst annoyance they ever have to deal with is their neighbour mowing his lawn too early on a Sunday morning.

Anyone who has suffered continual theiving, vandalism and intimidation by little scumbags would be glad to see them dealt with like this wee sh*te. The Gardai wash their hands of these kind of problems, and the judiciary is full of bleeding hearts from the leafy suburbs.

Sounds to me like he got fair warning and ignored it.
Hope he doesn't get over it too quick.

Re: beatings

In my view the people who slag off SF because of some alleged involvement in punishment beatings have usually never lived in a rough underprivileged council estate. They are more likely to come from the 'leafy suburbs' where the worst annoyance they ever have to deal with is their neighbour mowing his lawn too early on a Sunday morning.

Click to expand...

Yep - That's me, to a tee. OK - it's a slight exaggeration & stereotyping, but it is fairly close to the mark.

But my concern with the vigilante approach is not just around the moral issue - it is about effectiveness. I don't believe that you really teach these guys a lesson with this approach. What you teach them is that the guy with the biggest stick/gang/gun wins out - There is a real risk that next time the viggies come calling, he'll have a little machine pistol under the pillow - What happens then?

Re: beatings

There is a real risk that next time the viggies come calling, he'll have a little machine pistol under the pillow - What happens then?

He'd get whacked the very next night.

Of course, sitting here in my leafy suburb, I couldn't agree more with rainyday. The day we start looking to vigilantes and scumbags for assistance in solving our crime problems is the day I leave the country for good.

Our governments failure to solve these problems is not an excuse to say that this sort of violence is the solution.

Incidentally, if it can be proved (in a court of law) that SF had anything to do with this beating, or any other punishment beating for that matter, they should be banned as a political party for a fixed period of time until such time as they can show they are a democratic party.

The shinners

SFIRA are far too clever to leave any evidence linking them to these sorts of things, unfortunately

Vigilantes

- Our governments failure to solve these problems is not an excuse to say that this sort of violence is the solution. -

When our govt. tries to get tough on scumbags, Piggy, people like yourself start barking on about 'civil liberties' etc etc.
You only have to look at the front of the Indo today and see the picture of the young Dublin boy in a wheelchair for the rest of his life and the other picture of the guy who put him there (hint: he's the one with his fingers up to the camera looking to get his £99 back). And I know thats England but basically the laws and the records ind dealing with scum are much the same. The law/state/civil liberties groups don't give 2 tosses about the victims, it's always the criminals they look out for.

Currently the Gvt. is attempting to build a new mountjoy with a few hundred extra places. The Penal reform group and other do-gooders are up in arms shouting about how we'll have the highest incarceration rate in europe!!!!

So what, I say. Lock them up. If you 'joyride' , you should be charged with attempted murder - 10 years, no parole. If you seriously assault someone,10 years , no parole. If your an able bodied young man/woman and your out of work for more than X months, stop your dole (this would leave less time for scumbags to plot crimes).If you flout planning laws, take bribes etc, fine the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language of him/her and then jail them for up to 10 years.
And so on.....

Fight fire with fire, and the 1st political party who decided to do so, would be swept into power by the 99% of Irish people who are law abiding, hard working people...

Re: Vigilantes

HAae to agree with some of your comments there folks. The one regarding the little shits thinking taht the one with the bigger stick wins is probably right. They should lock the scumbags up in glass fronted cells in their locality so that everyone knows them for the scum they are and shame them into living like ordinary decent folk!

Re: Vigilantes

Fight fire with fire, and the 1st political party who decided to do so, would be swept into power by the 99% of Irish people who are law abiding, hard working people...

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You might be right on the political success, Delboy - but I don't think there is any evidence to show that the fight fire with fire approach actually reduces crime. The stories that I've seen from the US about the '3 strikes' rule creates a huge prison population, but doesn't actually lower crime statistics. And when they try the 'boot camp' approach in prisons, that didn't really help either.

I really don't see that these approaches will be effective.

route 1

So what then rainy, let these scumbags swan around with impunity? I for one am seriously pissed off with these pricks going around thinking they can do whatever they please - criminal damage, abusive comments/threats, joyriding, mugging and a general drain on society. They should be milled out of it. I'd be of the opinion that if they don't get a good beating that they'll progress to guns and more serious crime. It's the only language they seem to understand. Not sure about the SF connection as these scumbags are the very ones going around writing "brits out" the walls and SF posters up in windows come election time.
Prevention is better than cure.

Fire with Fire

Well Rainday, we could make a start at least.

I'm sick and tired of reading about scum who've racked up 40 odd convictions by the time they're 18. They should have been locked up for a few years long after their 2nd or 3rd crime, no matter what the offence was.
If you commit a crime, do 2 months or so jail and if you re-commit within , say 3 years of getting out, your next sentence should be double the usual for your latest crime.......Progressive Punishment for Progressive Criminals.

I'd personally be on for building a new super-prison AND keeping mountjoy open. Send 1st time crims to mountjoy to show them how tough it can be (slopping out, no exercise etc) (and don't get me started on the $hits that are about to sue for breach of their human rights 'cos they have to slop out &$@*). As for the Super-prison, stick it out near Belmullet or on some some un-inhabited island off the west coast. They're won't be too many balloons filled with drugs and mobile phones coming across the wall there.

What we need here is to get away from the attitude of looking after inmates and seeing to their every need. Hard time with no TV's in every cell and with limited opportunity to mix or exercise and hard work - make prisons tough and make sentences longer.
Sure, we'll still have crime, but we'll have less of the petty and everyday stuff that scumbags know and are getting away with at present, before they progress on to the 'bigger' jobs as they get older...

What next ?

So according to ttraces we let some big bad dudes beat the crap out of people because of their antisocial behaviour. Then what happens next ? What happens when then big bad dudes don't like ttraces because he speeds or drops ash from his cigarette on the pavement or speaks harshly to some little kid ?

Prepare for a thumping and don't come bleating that there are some big bad dudes on your case because it seems like you approve of this randon non-legal punishment.

If there are parameters within which these big bad dudes work then lets find a word for them. Oh, I know how about calling them laws.

Windom Earle

Re: Vigilantes

When our govt. tries to get tough on scumbags, Piggy, people like yourself start barking on about 'civil liberties' etc etc.

Incorrect. When our government tries to get tough on crime I'm all for it.
When we allow vigilante groups to look after our governing for us and condone it...then I have a problem.

Fire with Fire

Unfortunately your comments re how these people should be treated in prison just don't take into account reality. They're fine as a rant, and strike a chord with how most people feel they should be treated, but it doesn't deal with the real world.
It's been shown that denying prisoners certain "comforts" only results in a harder time for prison officers and more violence within prisons. No point having the jails if you can't staff them.

Re: Fire with Fire

Re: Windom Earle
The laws are there but unfortunately the Judges dont enforce them. i.e there is supposed to be a mandatory 10 year sentence if caught with more than 10K of drugs. I read about a little so and so from Ballyfermot who got caught with 10million of Heroin and got less than 4 years!
And thinking that someone would be up in arms over cigarette ash is a little over the top don't you think???

Re: Fire with Fire

We've had this argument before and it's always the same...this idea about prisons where we treat prisoners like sh*t is nonsense. Getting tough on crime does not mean treating people like animals. Thankfully, we treat people like human beings in this country (by and large). True - our system doesn't always work. But any system that either condones vigilantism, or prisoner abuse is both morally repugnant, unworkable and one that would be overwhelmingly out-voted were it to go to ballot.

Yobbo's

No point in pussy footing around these petty criminals, it gets you and them nowhere - string 'em up I say - no point in sending them to overcrowded prisons etc where they can now claim €5,000 every time they have a s*it!

I went to look for my son's stolen bike and was warned by the Gardai that if I found it in a garden or lying around a housing estate, not to touch it, as I would receive a summons for wilful theft the following day in the post from said robbers!

Odd but true that on the estate where this effer was 'warned' lives G.Adams brother!

Yobbo's

-Getting tough on crime does not mean treating people like animals-

Piggy, I don't see criminals (or civil liberties snobs)worrying too much about the rights of the people they commit their crimes on.
I don't think keeping prisoners in their cells for long periods, making them slop out or denying them 24 hour access to TV is treating them like animals. Surely going to prison should'nt be like going to a hotel for a couple of months/years......

Re: Yobbo's

Piggy, you say vigilantism and prisoner abuse is morally repugnant!! Is the selling of drugs to kids or breaking into peoples homes (which they've paid throught the nose for) or mugging old ladies or stealing cars (putting premiums through the roof) not morally repugnant too. Why not give the criminals a date to come out and rob all our possessions while we sit in on the said night! A harder stance is needed on these scumbags. Its funny how Garda pop out of the woodwork if theres a sniff of a vigilante gang!