Berties Monies

Purple, would that be the economy where the two biggest employers are the construction industry and the public sector.
Neither of these sectors are noted for their exports which brings wealth into the country.
One is a drain on the tax revenues of the country giving little in return in terms of value for money or productivity, the other sells us something we buy with somebody elses money that we repay over our entire life.

Did you know there are more people employed in construction than manufacturing.

Yeah some great economy we have.
 
jmayo said:
Purple, would that be the economy where the two biggest employers are the construction industry and the public sector.
Neither of these sectors are noted for their exports which brings wealth into the country.
One is a drain on the tax revenues of the country giving little in return in terms of value for money or productivity, the other sells us something we buy with somebody elses money that we repay over our entire life.

Did you know there are more people employed in construction than manufacturing.

Yeah some great economy we have.
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I agree with everything you say. My point is that many people, including me, fear that a Labour dominated coalition will make us even more uncompetitive. If the old Labour party people were still in charge I would be less fearful but since the reverse takeover by Democratic Left I have no confidence in them.

Ceist Beag said:
That's you opinion Purple, not fact –(sic)the economy is not just down to FF or the PDs, don't fall for that one.
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Yes, it’s my opinion and yes, the economy is not just down to FF or the PD’s. The current government has let public spending run out of control and we have seen very little return for all that money.
FG say that they will give us 2’300 more hospital beds and medical insurance for all under 16. Without deep structural reform of the health service none of this will happen. No government with a Labour party tail waging the dog will take on the unions. Without taking on the unions no structural reforms will take place.
Free insurance for all under16 is a stupid idea. Who will pay for it and how will it help those it should help? It will just be more money for consultants with insurance companies deciding what hospitals stay open and what procedures are covered.
I see no evidence that FG or Labour policies have actually been thought through.
It seems that their pitch is “We won’t fix anything, we’ll just throw more of your money at it.” Or they could say “We’ll be just as incompetent but on a bigger scale”.
 
Purple said:
No government with a Labour party tail waging the dog will take on the unions. Without taking on the unions no structural reforms will take place.
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FF won't take on the unions either. They've just spent 10 years not doing it. Why would you think that they'll do it in the next 5 years?
 
xavier said:
FF won't take on the unions either. They've just spent 10 years not doing it. Why would you think that they'll do it in the next 5 years?
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I agree that they won't but Labour will be worse, that's all I was saying.
 
Purple said:
Yes, it’s my opinion and yes, the economy is not just down to FF or the PD’s. The current government has let public spending run out of control and we have seen very little return for all that money.
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Out of control public spending is the economy now. It's FF's plan to keep the construction lobby and the unions placated. Why do you imagine that after ten years of profligate spending FF are suddenly in a position to steward the country through some difficult times ahead? I am inclined to think that FG are like every party in the run-up to an election, promising everything but inserting a "as long as the economy remains healthy" clause.

So far, FG are the only party I have heard talk about the importance of low inflation and the damage inflation is doing to our economy. FF have positively been cheerleaders for rampant inflation and seem to regard it as the sign of a healthy economy.

That's why I am voting for FG in this election.
 
room305 said:
So far, FG are the only party I have heard talk about the importance of low inflation and the damage inflation is doing to our economy. FF have positively been cheerleaders for rampant inflation and seem to regard it as the sign of a healthy economy.

That's why I am voting for FG in this election.
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If they are in coalition with Labour they are not going to be able to restore competiveness to our economy. That's my big worry about voting FG.
 
restoring competativeness? sure they were the ones who messed it up in the first place

so one lot make a mess and you don't trust the other lot to fix it so you leave the first lot to get on with it?

FF have proven they cannot manage it - and you fear the other lot cause you think they'll be worse? How will you ever know?
 
xavier said:
restoring competativeness? sure they were the ones who messed it up in the first place
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They were the ones that turned the economy around under Charlie McCreevey. Then Bertie shipped him off to Europe because he wasn’t afraid to make hard decisions. Since then things have gone down the tubes.

xavier said:
so one lot make a mess and you don't trust the other lot to fix it so you leave the first lot to get on with it?
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Yea, not very positive, am I?

xavier said:
FF have proven they cannot manage it - and you fear the other lot cause you think they'll be worse? How will you ever know?
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FF under different leadership could do it but not under Bertie. How will I know? It’s just my opinion based on what they have said and done over the last 20 years.
 
Purple once again you seem to be crediting FF with the economy - the economy was on the way up before FF/PD took over government - so to say Charlie McCreevy turned it around is incorrect.
 
polaris said:
If they are in coalition with Labour they are not going to be able to restore competiveness to our economy. That's my big worry about voting FG.
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Well FF are directly responsible for our lack of competiveness so I'm going to give FG a chance. The fact that they even recognise inflation as a problem is encouraging.
 
Purple said:
They were the ones that turned the economy around under Charlie McCreevey. Then Bertie shipped him off to Europe because he wasn’t afraid to make hard decisions. Since then things have gone down the tubes.
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Purple might want to check out which Minister for Finance brought in the 12.5% corporation tax rate which is generally credited with playing a huge role in creating the Celtic Tiger.
 
Who did what when doesn't seem to come into it - the mantra is FF good all else untrustworthy
 
RainyDay said:
Purple might want to check out which Minister for Finance brought in the 12.5% corporation tax rate which is generally credited with playing a huge role in creating the Celtic Tiger.
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I know that Ruairí Quinn introduced the 12.5% rate. I think he was a very good minister for finance, but I have said that to you before. The current Labour party is a world away from the one that Ruairí Quinn led. Since they were taken over by Democratic Left and Pat Rabbitt purged the party (Stalin style) of it smoked salmon wing they are different beast.
The reason I liked Charlie McCreevey so much is because he had a plan and stuck to it. He was not a populist and did what he thought was right.
 
I always find it funny how those outside of Labour (Phoenix magazine, Purple, other meeja interests) seem to be much more interested in Labour/DL/takeovers/splits than those inside the party. I've no history on these matters, not having been around for the pre-DL period, but I can assure that there is almost zero discussion/comment/gossip on DL vs Labour matters inside the party. Pat & Liz were elected by the party membership on a 1-man, 1-vote system. I think we are the only party that operates this system. For the record, I didn't vote for Pat - I voted for Eamonn Gilmore - but it really doesn't matter. If anything, the party has moved towards the centre under Pat, so claims of a DL takeover just don't stand up.

But let's not let the facts stand in the way of a good rant.....
 
To get back to Berties backhanders, I should state at the outset have never had an allegience to any party -- I despise them all equally. However I have a base line that I will not go below when casting my ballot. I Will not vote for anyone whom I believe to be crooked or open to being influenced by money. As someone who spent a lifetime working in countries where corruption was common, I have seen how the practice has held countries back and resulted in decisions being made that were very often not in the best interests of the citizens. While Bertie may wriggle his way out of his current position, and the average voter doesn't seem to give a toss whether or not he was on the make, the fact remains that a member of a state body was appointed at a time when Bertie had been given money by this appointee. That is reason enough for me to vote for almost anyone else this time round (except of course the shinners, god help us!)
 
Am I missing something or maybe this has been answered already in the media, but when Bertie said he didn't have a bank account at that time and for I think 4 years due to his "Judicial Separation", where was his Dail salary going? Do the Houses of Oireachtas pay Cash as well as cheque/dd ?
 
Perhaps he was paid by cheque which he cashed in Fagans while having a Bass.
This goverment needs to be given a "bloody nose" especially when then leader of one of the supposedly wealthiest countries in the world holds an interview in an attempts to squeeze out a crocodile tear.. (See Ahern interviewed by Dobson 2006).
How can a Minister for Finance not have a bank a/c for 4 years? Was he cheating the revenue, his wife or worse?
We should be deeply ashamed of the standard of politican we have here..we have the highest paid amateurs, a bunch off self-serving part-time lawyers and accountants.
 
Amygdala said:
Perhaps he was paid by cheque which he cashed in Fagans while having a Bass.
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But if the cheque was crossed (as one might expect from Dept of Finance), it could not have been cashed in Fagans or any other pub, or by any other party.
 
RainyDay said:
But if the cheque was crossed (as one might expect from Dept of Finance), it could not have been cashed in Fagans or any other pub, or by any other party.
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This is the same Bertie that signed blanked cheques. Anything is possible. Remember the late Brian Lenihan - "No Problem".
 
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