Berties Monies

Spin and counter spin. The mire that is being created around this issue is a thing to behold. Yesterdays events made for fantastic viewing. Pure pantomime.

So if we are to tow the line we must subscribe to the following:

Ah leave him alone. We need to focus our minds on what is important here. Bertie (for he is our pal) is only being hounded by the media and persons with "an agenda". The plain people of Ireland don't care that our politico's are bent. What odds if a senior governmental office holder was getting cash from friends or wealthy business people. These matters are his own private affairs. He is professional enough (as are all our elected representatives) to be able to take money in their private capacity and not have it impact on their actions as an office holder.

We are small minded to be even thinking that the "no favour asked or given" line in these matters is anything but the truth.

I mean what is the world coming to when you not only have to be clean but also be seen to be clean. Ceasers wife should have moved here....

Shame on us.
 
CCOVICH said:
Has that comment actually been clarified? I would love to know what on earth Bertie was talking about.
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It would be interesting to get a comment from Celia on this or has she done a deal with Bertie.
 
CCOVICH said:
Has that comment actually been clarified? I would love to know what on earth Bertie was talking about.
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Apparently so, according to this [broken link removed]

Mr Wall and Mr Ahern have told the tribunal that on December 3rd, 1994, Mr Wall produced £30,000 sterling in cash during a meeting in Mr Ahern's constituency centre, St Luke's. Mr Ahern's then partner, Celia Larkin, was also at the meeting. Mr Ahern put the cash in a safe.

Mr Ahern told the tribunal the money was to be used on structural work on the house that was being purchased by Mr Wall, and that Ms Larkin would oversee this.

The money was deposited by her in a bank account in her name on December 5th. Some of the money was later used to settle a stamp duty bill of approximately £8,400 that arose from the purchase of the house by Mr Wall.
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The reality is that Irish voters don't really mind if a crook is representing them in Dail Eireann, regardless of which party is involved. Many politicians get elected with the backing of vested interests who then cash in after the election -- remember that some of Bertie's donors were well looked after in intervening years. The electorate just doesn't care about this -- we expect politicians to be crooked and we continue to support crooked politicians. I don't expect this to impact greatly on Bertie's election chances, he will still top the poll.
 
I do care about this and would like Bertie to clarify his position. I would like him to get lost and Brian Cowen to be in charge but that ‘aint gonna happen!
But, and there’s always a “but”, I care more about how the next government is going to run the country. I care more about how they are going to improve public services. I care more about how they are going to plan for the future.
It is to the credit of both Fine Gael and the Labour party that they have avoided the payments to Bertie issue and concentrated on things that are more important. It’s a pity that the media is too lazy to do so as well.
For example Pat Rabbitt has said that he wants to improve public services… that’s like saying you are in favour of Christmas and holidays and sunny days. What I do not know is how he proposes to do it. Is he going to just spend more money or is he going to reform the public sector so that it is run for the benefit of the people who consume the services rather than the people who provide them? I’m sure he had a policy document or two on the subject but there’s too much noise about Bertie to hear about it.
 
micamaca said:
Are people not a little tired listening to Bertie fobbing us off by saying that it's a campaign to ruin his party's chances at re-election.

Everytime something is released to the media, he says it's sabotage. Fair enough, but can we also focus on the issue itself a bit more. Why was a businessman giving 30,000 to Celia Larkin...she can't pull any strings for him. Would it be fair to presume her relationship with Bertie was a factor in this 30,000 being handed over. If Bertie was already putting money into the house, perhaps that was 30,000 less he had to put in. Is this a wild conclusion? I think not.

It's getting ridiculous at this stage...Bertie has no credibility left in my mind. If there weren't so many hidden agendas with Bertie, there would be nothing to be released to the media and nothing to hide. How many more will come out of the woodwork...
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Pillow talk.
 
[broken link removed], in case anyone missed it.

Fair play to V.B., I say. I liked his little reminder to P.J. about the attempts to question Haughey, back in the good ol' days... :D
 
DrMoriarty said:
[broken link removed], in case anyone missed it.

Fair play to V.B., I say. I liked his little reminder to P.J. about the attempts to question Haughey, back in the good ol' days... :D
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I loved Ahern's line "I earned the money ... I got some of it from friends, it was my money ..."

Ah, to have such generous friends.
 
Purple said:
I agree that in general it’s more serious to take bribes (from anyone) but in the case sited by the OP Enda Kenny has gained a lot more by exploiting a temp teacher for 30 years than Bertie ever got from dinner buddies or plasterers. It is, in my opinion, no right to keep a job open for yourself if doing so seriously disadvantages the person who replaces you.
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What Enda is doing is entirely legal. While taking bribes etc., is not legal.
 
xavier said:
Spin and counter spin. The mire that is being created around this issue is a thing to behold. Yesterdays events made for fantastic viewing. Pure pantomime.

So if we are to tow the line we must subscribe to the following:

Ah leave him alone. We need to focus our minds on what is important here. Bertie (for he is our pal) is only being hounded by the media and persons with "an agenda". The plain people of Ireland don't care that our politico's are bent. What odds if a senior governmental office holder was getting cash from friends or wealthy business people. These matters are his own private affairs. He is professional enough (as are all our elected representatives) to be able to take money in their private capacity and not have it impact on their actions as an office holder.

We are small minded to be even thinking that the "no favour asked or given" line in these matters is anything but the truth.

I mean what is the world coming to when you not only have to be clean but also be seen to be clean. Ceasers wife should have moved here....

Shame on us.
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Great post Xavier!
 
room305 said:
I loved Ahern's line "I earned the money ... I got some of it from friends, it was my money ..."

Ah, to have such generous friends.
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Some of them in America. Is there some talk now of $45,000. I would like to have friends like that but then again maybe not.
 
Perhaps this is all a black op designed by some FF backroom boys. Perhaps all we are to do for the next week or so is talk about nothing other than berties monies. Perhaps there is a perfect explination for all this and we are all being kept in the dark. In a few weeks this explination will be wheeled out and we'll all see that poor bertie was wronged and we'll have to vote him in again.

Who gains from all the talk of berties monies? Ok on the face of it fg and lab - but they are being drowned out by all the talk of the berties monies. Keep the focus on bertie and then wheel him out as a poor put upon daecent bass drinkin nort sider. I smell a contrived bertie bounce.

What was it CJ said, the most devious, the most cunning of them all....
 
xavier said:
Perhaps all we are to do for the next week or so is talk about nothing other than berties monies.
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If he can come up with a convincing explanation for all of this, I'll vote for him on principle ...

I don't think that he is politically corrupt (beyond the usual FF moral bankruptcy) or surely there would be less comical buffoonry involved. Rather I think he has gone to extraordinary lengths to hide money from Miriam and her lawyers. I doubt he disclosed to the courts that he had ten of thousands in ready cash lying about the place. If this proves to be the case, it could land him in real trouble.
 
room305 said:
If he can come up with a convincing explanation for all of this, I'll vote for him on principle ...

I don't think that he is politically corrupt (beyond the usual FF moral bankruptcy) or surely there would be less comical buffoonry involved. Rather I think he has gone to extraordinary lengths to hide money from Miriam and her lawyers. I doubt he disclosed to the courts that he had ten of thousands in ready cash lying about the place. If this proves to be the case, it could land him in real trouble.
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you will vote for him on principle----- so leaving aside all the money stuff you think the Gov of the past 10 years have done a great job. The country was awash with money but our health service, schools, water, crime are all ok in your view not to mention roads, the underspend in the BMW region, the price of houses for our young people.
No I am not a FF or FG supporter I have always voted for the person that did the most in my area and when I see the amount of money that has been wasted by this gov I could cry. E voting machines, paying twice to much for a prison site, now the tara road situation, if they get back in again is it going to be any different or more broken promises. "Rant over"
 
Marcecie said:
you will vote for him on principle----- so leaving aside all the money stuff you think the Gov of the past 10 years have done a great job.
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I think they have done a dismal job just like every other government before them and likely every other government we will ever elect. The only variance is just how dismal they are, with some proving marginally less dismal than others. It is on the basis of this that I tend to vote for the government that is likely intrude in my life the least.

The comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, in that should Bertie manage to contrive a satisfactory explanation for some extremely bizarre goings-on, he should be deserving of a vote as a nod to his creativity if nothing else.
 
I must admit I'm pretty sickened by this whole thing. It is pretty clear to me now that this whole thing was the FF game plan for their election campaign. It was designed to push all other parties to the sidelines, drown out their campaigns.

After all the spin and convulsions of the past week bertie is left to take his time to deign us with an explanation. I'm sure there is a reasonable one and I'm doubly sure that when he wheels it out he'll be shouting FG/Lab dirty tricks.

Poor bertie sure here's another 5 years.

We are a bunch of mugs. Hook, line and sinker. I'm sure the lads can hardly contain themselves in private.

Anyway we're bored now and need some more distraction - sure they are all the same ain't they.

Well no, not really. But when you have no etics and your conscience doesn't intrude so much who cares if you feed cynicism and debase your profession.
 
What’s Bertie’s biggest asset?
Despite all the mud that is now sticking the alternative is STILL worse!
It's the economy, stupid.
 
That's you opinion Purple, not fact - how do you know the alternative is worse - it's not like they have been given the opportunity to prove one way or the other. I for one am willing to give them that chance now - FF are just to smug and arrogant for my liking and the economy is not just down to FF or the PDs, don't fall for that one.
 
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