Baptism - yes or no?

haminka1 said:
tradition, which makes it a condition for a better educational standard over here
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This isn't accurate at all. Standard of education has nothing to do with it. Easier access to available education - arguably, yes.
 

You might want to explain that one.
 
haminka1 said:
i'd beg to differ
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As you wish, but if you are going to differ maybe you should offer an explanation for your claim - or at least confirm what you are claiming.

Are you saying that by baptising your baby (RC, COI or whatever) you will ensure a better standard of education for them? and if so, why?
 
Mpsox said:
Personnally, I don't consider the church to be simply a building and the clergy, to me it is a sense of community and baptism is a welcoming cermony into that community.
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Mpsox, how do you feel then about people who are a reluctant part of that community as they are baptising their kids to get them into the school. Does that not make you question the role that community has in our society?
 

Protesting isn't really what priests do is it? They believe that they must carry out the word of God and they believe that they will be tested throughout their lives, this may be considered a serious test of their faith, either way its not cut and dried.
Your descriptions of baptism would suggest that you have absolutley no respect for the process so why even consider it? If you view baptism and the church with disdain then just carry on without them.
 

the nearest school is catholic and is far better than the ET school - most ET schools are full of kids from immigrant families with poor English and as such the whole standard suffers as these kids have to learn English first thus delaying others as well
 

MrMan, where did I show any disrespect to baptism? Yes, for a baby it's ultimately nothing but an unpleasant cold shower. For a mature person though, it's the expression of their beliefs and belonging to an organization representing these beliefs.
 
I'm starting to feel like I can't win - baptise the child and send her to an RC school and I'm a hyprocrite, send her to ET and I'm compromising her education, send her to a Gaelscoil and I'm an elitist snob. Oh yeah or fork out for a private school. Hmmm what to do. Newsflash Haminka, there isn't a perfect solution.
 
haminka1 said:
that's the experience shared by my colleagues who are non-Irish and their kids attend these schools because they are not catholic
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That is not my experience based on family, friends and workmates with kids in ET schools.
 

believe me, i know - but that's my feelings. are they yours as well?
 
annR said:
Mpsox, how do you feel then about people who are a reluctant part of that community as they are baptising their kids to get them into the school. Does that not make you question the role that community has in our society?
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Personnaly, I would never have an issue with a child being baptised, regardless of what the parents do or do not believe in and regardless of their motivation in getting the child baptised. Why would I? After all, it is not the parents being baptised, it's the child.

I grew up in the country and our local NS was almost all RC but the local COI kids went there as well and there was never any issue about it. Indeed I have family members who are Christian Scientists and they've never faced any issues in relation to getting their children into RC managed schools. I've never come accross a situation where a child was refused admission to a local RC managed school because they were not baptised, indeed, in my own local school there are kids attending who are not Christian, not to mind being RC/COI or whatever, and that is in a major rural town.

Having said that, and before someone jumps down my throat, I accept it probably happens elsewhere, in particuler in areas where the infrastructure has not kept pace with the growth in population in a specific area. The Church educated half the country over the last 100 or so years, but times have changed and I wouldn't have an issue if the RC lost control over a large chunk, if not all of the management of schools.
 
haminka1 said:
MrMan, where did I show any disrespect to baptism? Yes, for a baby it's ultimately nothing but an unpleasant cold shower. For a mature person though, it's the expression of their beliefs and belonging to an organization representing these beliefs.
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Either way you have summed things up nicely yourself, so if you feel that the church and baptism is an 'expression of their beliefs and belonging to an organization representing these beliefs'. then you should go ahead with the baptism, and if you feel otherwise then it makes perfect sense to forego a ritual that would only be cosmetic to you and your child.
 

I'd put 100 to 1 that it was women involved and that it is mostly women who do the cleaning,the flowers and the sandwich making. Despite everything we have learned over past 20 years these biddies are still running after the priests and fussing over them. They actually think the priests appreciate them and their work. In truth most priests probably regard them as a bit of a joke.
 
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