Baptism - yes or no?

H

haminka1

Registered User
Messages
110
We wanted to have our baby girl baptized but with all the mess and scandals surrounding Catholic church at the moment we just really don't know if this is the right decision. There is so much hypocrisy and immorality in the organization that I literally feel disgusted at the thought of condemning my baby to become a part of it.
At the end of the day, should baptism be really about giving your child a cold head wash and then throw a big party where on both occasions your baby is barely aware of what is going on? Or should it be a personal decision to become a part of a church by an individual who is mature enough to make the choice?
 
You need to ask yourselves the questions
  1. Are we religious
  2. Do we attend mass/service
  3. Will we bring them up in the spirit of the church
  4. Can we seperarte the church and faith from the actions of some individuals
If the answer to ALL of the above is not YES - then you should not baptize your child. If you are doing it for a day out, or because its the done thing to do then you are perpetuating a lie.

If you are religious but do not liek your current church - well why not switch to an alternative flavour of your religion. One where the beliefs match your own.

I object to people who do not attend mass and have no interest in the church - turning up for the ceremonial aspects.

Myself, I am anti-religion because it seperates people and is inherently bigoted. I have recently opted out of the church by using the facilities of Countmeout.ie
 
Complainer said:
Some good discussion around the school-related impacts of this issue on;

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=134195
Click to expand...

i'm aware of this and that's also a moral problem for me ... be hypocritical or give my kid a better education? however, what if they stuff her head with nonsense before she can think for herself? the church seems to go on offensive instead of practicing some repentance and humility ..
plus, is the abuse really dead?
 

I would answer a definate no to all 4 questions... But my missus (who would answer no to 2 of these questions wants baptism...

Could lead to lots of arguing.
 
Wait until she comes back and looks you in the eye and says 'Dad, you're not holy'!

We're in a similar situation, as the Missus would take a far more traditional approach to these things to me. So we opted for the parish school for reasons outlined on this thread. I won't lie, but I won't actively block or disparage the stuff that they are covering at school, and they have picked up on my different views on these things.
 
truthseeker said:
This says it all really haminka1 - if you think what the church teaches is nonsense - then why bother with a baptism?
Click to expand...

i don't think teaching about faith is nonsense - i think their current attitude and defense of the abuse cover-up /Mgr. Dooley anyone?/ is nonsense and arrogant
 
haminka1 said:
i'm aware of this and that's also a moral problem for me ... be hypocritical or give my kid a better education?
Click to expand...

It is because of this that I feel more and more parents baptise their children. Were the RC church to cease managing our primary schools I think there would be a significant drop in baptisms.

I don't wish to appear cynical but it is my opinion that the church is very happy to this to continue.

The most important question is do you want your child to be brought up in the RC faith?

There are other questions whose answers may have a bearing such as:

1. The imposition of a religion on a new born baby?

2. Do you believe that the institution of the church has failed or just individuals?
 

Of course it isn't dead, and just like you should keep vigil with your child around a priest, you should also realise that uncles, aunts, teachers, coaches, basically anyone with access to your child could be an abuser. the liklihood is that those people are not abusers as is the liklihood that your parish priest is not.
 
haminka1 said:
i don't think teaching about faith is nonsense - i think their current attitude and defense of the abuse cover-up /Mgr. Dooley anyone?/ is nonsense and arrogant
Click to expand...


Have you spoken to your PP? Not all priests fall into line with decisions made by the Vatican. It is important to realise that when discussing the attitudes of the RC and the Vatican that we don't account for the attitudes of all priests.
 
haminka1 said:
... At the end of the day, should baptism be really about giving your child a cold head wash and then throw a big party where on both occasions your baby is barely aware of what is going on? ...
Click to expand...
If you believe that is the totality of what baptism is about then maybe you should give it a miss.
haminka1 said:
... Or should it be a personal decision to become a part of a church by an individual who is mature enough to make the choice?
Click to expand...
Parents make lots of strategic decisions with wide-ranging implications for their children, who are too young to make those decisions for themselves, because that is what parents are supposed to do (where to live, what schools / doctors to attend, etc.); good parents will make those decisions based on what is for the child's long-term benefit, based on the parents' own life experiences.
 
MrMan said:
Have you spoken to your PP? Not all priests fall into line with decisions made by the Vatican. It is important to realise that when discussing the attitudes of the RC and the Vatican that we don't account for the attitudes of all priests.
Click to expand...

Well, you see no big protests from the ordinary priests and the bosses are having a field day pretending everything is fine even though more and more cover-up is discovered Europe-wide.
That's why I have a big problem having my baby baptized without her making the choice by and for herself. I was baptized myself because my Granny couldn't stand the idea of having a little pagan in the family while my Mum and Dad were rather relaxed and kept saying that it's entirely up to ourselves what we do with our beliefs, so when she had the chance to baby-sit she grabbed the pram and ran to her church to give me a shower before my parents could say anything about it.
 
mathepac said:
If you believe that is the totality of what baptism is about then maybe you should give it a miss.
Click to expand...

mathepac, baptism shows that the person is recognizing the teachings of the particular church and wants to be an active participant. a few weeks old baby can hardly make the decision.

Parents make lots of strategic decisions with wide-ranging implications for their children, who are too young to make those decisions for themselves, because that is what parents are supposed to do (where to live, what schools / doctors to attend, etc.); good parents will make those decisions based on what is for the child's long-term benefit, based on the parents' own life experiences.[/QUOTE]

I believe that faith isn't something parents should decide for their baby - I was baptized as a Catholic and acknowledge beliefs of the church, that's why I was thinking Catholic baptism - however, I don't believe the common practice to decide for your baby is the right one.
 
So why were you thinking of having your baby baptised at all then?

We wanted to have our baby girl baptized but with all the mess and scandals surrounding Catholic church at the moment we just really don't know if this is the right decision.
Click to expand...
 

+1
 

As a practicising Catholic I would agree with much, if not all of this( bar the last paragraph obviously enough , ) but that's a discussion for another day.

Personnally, I don't consider the church to be simply a building and the clergy, to me it is a sense of community and baptism is a welcoming cermony into that community.

Interestingly, in my parish, when we baptised my own daughter, virtually all of the pre-planning for the cermony did not involve a priest or anyone from the clergy, instead all of this was done by a lay person as the parish has a team of volunteers who do this.
 
Just do what a former neighbour of mine did. He got the child baptised COI, despite being RC, an altar boy and the granny being a daily attendee.
The advantages were getting the child easily into the local COI school and for obvious reasons the clergy are far less lightly to have undesirable tendencies. Oh and don't forget none of the 1st holy communion "how much money did you make" carryon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register