How is this a sly way for electricians to get the job? With the new PSA licensing electricians won't be installing alarms. On most sites I know it is an Alarm company that installs the alarms not electricians.This is a sly way for the electrician to guarantee that he will get all the alarms on site as most alarm companies will not use Astec
You are 100% correct. There is no such thing as 2 core alarm cable.I would have thought it difficult to wire for astec only unless builder has used 2 core cable! Is this the case?
How is this a sly way for electricians to get the job? With the new PSA licensing electricians won't be installing alarms. On most sites I know it is an Alarm company that installs the alarms not electricians.
Any installer can install Astec systems.
Most companies will not use Astec? What figures are you basing this on?
The majority of Irish installers now use astec.
You are 100% correct. There is no such thing as 2 core alarm cable.
Very few will wire with the minimum of cores either. They would rather wire with plenty to spare in case of any problems.
Generally Astec is very reliable if installed correctly. Because of the nature of how the system operates ,it is less forgiving of bad connections. This of course is not a fault of the Alarm , but rather the installers work.
BTW before anyone asks I am in no way affiliated with Astec.
I am just giving my opinion as a qualified installer of over 20 years.
What sort of problems are you having with it at the moment?
Are you living in Dublin? I could take a look at it if you like.
I don't get what you mean by skimp on cable?There is no need to skimp on cable when wiring a house. By doing this it is very difficult to install a conventional alarm and nearly impossible if it is an apartment.The home owner should have some choice and not be limited to one type of alarm system. Any of the astec wired sites I have been on are dominated by one company.
I base my information from running my own company and getting feedback from other companies and wholesalers etc. Some have even got on to Mr Anderson about this.
I have also repaired a lot of astec alarms, more than I should considering their small market share. It is true that most of them are from poor wiring but some are down to poor design. On one instance the home owner was lucky that the panel did not go on fire as all the insulation on the wires inside the panel had melted
Thanks for the offer Colm but I'm not having any problems with the alarm, after initial problems were sorted out. I was just interested in getting some feedback from other users and /or installers.
JNealon, thanks for your feedback too, I accept what your saying regarding the small market share vs the number of faults you've come accross. I spoke to the designer Mr Anderson myself when I'd had problems and the whole panel was just replaced so I can't really complain.
However I wonder if either of you can tell whether the digi voice dialler used on Astec (and other) alarms is IS (or EN) compliant in terms of being a "monitored system"?
I don't get what you mean by skimp on cable?
The minimum a builder is going to use is 4 core.(Which is rare enough to see) Even with a house or apartment wired compleatly with 4 core A conventional syatem could be installed fully up to standards.
Have you never heard of dual wiring?
Have you never heard of common negitives?
Any good installer would have no problems installing a different make of system if the home owner requested it.
With regar to the panel you say nearly went on fire.I presume you are talking about the insulation on the mains wires.If so this would be a fault of the mains wiring going into the panel. Astecs mains fuse is of a very low rating (180ma or there abouts) so anthing after this fuse could not possibly heat up to melting point. if that evaluation is correct how can you fault Astec for this?
You say any Astec wired sites are nearly dominated by one company.
How is that Astecs fault? There are literally hundreds of companys installing Astec systems. If one is dominating a site they are probobly more competitive on price & quality.
What do you base Astecs market share on? You have just said a lot of estates are dominated by the Astec system.
The IS199 standard is not based on any form of monitoring, so a Voice dialler being installed is irrelevent.
The newer EN50131 has different grades & central station monitoring may be a requirement for an alarm to pass on that grade.
To sum up. I have been using & installing Astec systems sine they came on the market. In that time I have found them extreemly reliable with very little problems. As I already stated, the way the astec system workes over conventional systems makes it less forgiving to bad connections, but this is usually down to bad installation. I have serviced & repaired a lot of astec systems. I have never once come across a case where a system nearly went on fire or anything like it.As with all Alarm systems Astec works on low voltage (12dc) which is very safe & almost impossible to heat to the extent of melting cables. Only a mains electrical fault could cause something like this.
We live in a compeditive society, where a lot of people are being ripped off. Consumers are more aware of the cost of things nowdays & most people shop around. I do not accept the way a house or apartment is wired will give any company an advantage over another. If jnealon feels he is being unjustly being done out of business I would suggest he contact the competition authority . They would be only too happy to explain the act to him.
Expander keypad upstairsI don’t think dual eol or common negatives are going to help when all up stairs windows, panic buttons and the external bell are wired on the one loop with 4 core or when you have 4 core going to the rkp and then a 4 core from the rkp to the front door and sitting room
By wiring a house like this it would be very difficult to modify
The installers fault. This does not in anyway reflect on the reliability of the astec systemMaybe price but not on quality judging by the amount of repairs and takeovers I have done
you supply the figures & i'll do the maths, You said the majority of sites have astec systems. I would agree with thatWhen other companies are saying they have 75% market share, you do the math
I simply do not belive that. The only way 12 volts could heat like that or catch fire would be a short across the battery teminals, (which would be fuse protected)The mains were fine it was the alarm cables, all of them. Astec themselves couldn’t even figure it out.
Explain thisExpander keypad upstairs
Expander keypad downstairs
????you supply the figures & i'll do the maths, You said the majority of sites have astec systems. I would agree with that
Believe what you want, if a mobile phone(nokia), laptop(dell) or cd player can go on fire an alarm panel can.I simply do not belive that. The only way 12 volts could heat like that or catch fire would be a short across the battery teminals, (which would be fuse protected)
So its an alarm panel now... Not just Astec? this discussion started about how unreliable/reliable astec systems are. Nothing you have stated has any relevence to Astec systems reliability. Except for the fact that you seem to be losing out on business by not installing themBelieve what you want, if a mobile phone(nokia), laptop(dell) or cd player can go on fire an alarm panel can.
What else would you call it ?????So its an alarm panel now... Not just Astec?
No, your funny. What have I said in previous posts. I gave my feebackthis discussion started about how unreliable/reliable astec systems are. Nothing you have stated has any relevence to Astec systems reliability.
LOL. Where have I said thisExcept for the fact that you seem to be losing out on business by not installing them
Explain how to fit expander keypads? I thought you were an installer?
You seem to be getting confused here. Your previous post you quote me as saying the majority of sites have an astec now it's the majority of houses. Where did I say this, you seem to be making things upYou asked me to do the maths , I did based what I said on on what you were telling us about Astec being in the majority of houses. I said I agree with that..
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