Anyone else get a letter

[elefantfresh]

How can there be legal action within months? It says on the HHC site, that there is a late payment fee scale in place.

A person who does not pay the Household Charge by the payment date leaves themselves open to a late payment fee plus interest. Furthermore, the Household Charge and any accumulated late payment fee plus interest will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment fees plus interest concerned became due.

https://www.householdcharge.ie/

For example, if I chose to pay it today, I'd have to pay €115 late payment fee +%

 

[Time]

I doubt there will be any legal action. This is just Phil Hogan trying to scare people.

 

[Bronte]

I received a letter even though I'd paid in plenty of time. I think they sent it to me because I'm listed under the NPPR. As the letter asked I telephoned them and now I'm off their list. Interestingly the letter was posted in Dublin which is not the country where the property is.

Since I've paid, all those that I know who haven't paid can well afford to pay it. But the fines will get them in the end. A lot of people are only now walking up to the reality of the NPPR penalties and it's not pleasant.

 

[werner]

I received a letter even though I'd paid in plenty of time. I think they sent it to me because I'm listed under the NPPR. As the letter asked I telephoned them and now I'm off their list. Interestingly the letter was posted in Dublin which is not the country where the property is.

Since I've paid, all those that I know who haven't paid can well afford to pay it. But the fines will get them in the end. A lot of people are only now walking up to the reality of the NPPR penalties and it's not pleasant.

After hearing Joan Burton's comments in the below I think some Ministers and TD's are only now waking up to the reality that their seats will be gone in the next election!
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-take-more-pain-says-joan-burton-3203546.html

Bully boy tactics by the likes of Phil Hogan will destroy any support that FG gained in the recent election as well

 

[Frank]

2nd reminder arrived today.

Anyone else get one?

 

[Time]

Nope. Still waiting for my first letter.

 

[Frank]

only got one for the nppr house feel a bit of a fool for signing up for it now.

 

[seantheman]

Bully boy tactics by the likes of Phil Hogan will destroy any support that FG gained in the recent election as well

Not trying to condone some Big Phil's gaffes but what are the alternatives?
Bed Charge Micheal,Young Dev, Master McGrath, Shotgun Willie and the crew or
Fork tongued Gerry,Hairdo MaryLou,Xerox Aengus and their gang or there's
Ming the Bogman, Vat Micko ,Poor Claire and Joe the Red.
Not really a star studded lineup is it?

 

[Frank]

So the lack of alternative is good reason to just keep taking the never ending charges on charges.

See your point though FG no different than FF and Labour have sold there souls to get into power.

deja vu without a rotting carcase of the tiger stinking up the whole economy.

As long as the developers can still get paid 200k by NAMA that makes it all ok.

 

[monore]

I think they are now seriously worried. The first round of letters had very little effect. Now they are trying threats of legal action, cutting local services etc. But the reality is that at approx 800,000 households ( not the 600,000 they are saying) have not registered.

To maintain respect for a law with this level of non compliance is unsustainable. It means they can't now introduce a property tax or another household charge in 2013.

 

[mandelbrot]

To maintain respect for a law with this level of non compliance is unsustainable. It means they can't now introduce a property tax or another household charge in 2013.

I don't see how this necessarily follows from the earlier point.

A lot of people object to the fact that the household charge was a flat amount, and therefore inherently unfair - a graded tax would probably enjoy greater support.

Also AFAIK the property tax will be administered / collected by Revenue, which is a completely different kettle of fish to the local authorities.

Not that I wish to scaremonger but I would expect non-compliance with the property tax would also increase the risk of Revenue audit, as Revenue's risk systems look for behavioural indicators, and flat out non-compliance with a particular tax would surely be taken as a serious indicator about a taxpayer's willingness to comply generally... (i.e. "I disagree with the property tax, so I'm not paying it" could lead to "I don't think the VAT rate should have been raised from 21% to 23%, so I'm going to hold back 2%...")

 

[truthseeker]

Not that I wish to scaremonger but I would expect non-compliance with the property tax would also increase the risk of Revenue audit, as Revenue's risk systems look for behavioural indicators, and flat out non-compliance with a particular tax would surely be taken as a serious indicator about a taxpayer's willingness to comply generally... (i.e. "I disagree with the property tax, so I'm not paying it" could lead to "I don't think the VAT rate should have been raised from 21% to 23%, so I'm going to hold back 2%...")

Why would this be scary? Most people are not in fact trying to defraud Revenue.

I couldnt care less if Revenue audited me, and Im sure most people would feel the same.

 

[mandelbrot]

Why would this be scary? Most people are not in fact trying to defraud Revenue.

I couldnt care less if Revenue audited me, and Im sure most people would feel the same.

Really?! Having worked in accountancy practice, most clients nearly lost their life when they'd get an audit notification - maybe they all had something to hide!

Even if you don't have anything to hide, Revenue audits can be quite intrusive, involving lots of personal questions about people's finances etc... so perhaps I should have said I don't want to "discomfort-monger"

 

[truthseeker]

Really?! Having worked in accountancy practice, most clients nearly lost their life when they'd get an audit notification - maybe they all had something to hide!

Even if you don't have anything to hide, Revenue audits can be quite intrusive, involving lots of personal questions about people's finances etc... so perhaps I should have said I don't want to "discomfort-monger"

All you could do with me is take my payslips and look at my bank accounts. Im sure if you are self employed its a bigger paperwork deal. I mean, I can see its a hassle, but if most people are compliant then whats the worry? Most workers are PAYE so they couldnt be non compliant on income tax.

As far as the household charge goes its certainly not something Id be concerned about, the only people who would be worried about a Revenue audit are those with something to hide or messy paperwork and surely those people would worry about an audit anyway regardless of the household charge?

Id be perfectly happy for revenue to come and sit in my sitting room going over my finances - might get some advice!

 

[T McGibney]

Not that I wish to scaremonger but I would expect non-compliance with the property tax would also increase the risk of Revenue audit, as Revenue's risk systems look for behavioural indicators, and flat out non-compliance with a particular tax would surely be taken as a serious indicator about a taxpayer's willingness to comply generally... (i.e. "I disagree with the property tax, so I'm not paying it" could lead to "I don't think the VAT rate should have been raised from 21% to 23%, so I'm going to hold back 2%...")

This is scaremongering, and rather ineffective scaremongering at that. Most PAYE workers and dole recipients will scoff at the idea of a Revenue Audit. If Revenue divert their audit resources away from business audits in a quixotic attempt to enforce property tax compliance, the consequences will not be pretty, least of all for the Exchequer.

 

[monore]

A lot of people object to the fact that the household charge was a flat amount, and therefore inherently unfair - a graded tax would probably enjoy greater support.

Also AFAIK the property tax will be administered / collected by Revenue, which is a completely different kettle of fish to the local authorities.

)

Problem is that govt was depending on Household Charge registrations for database on which to base property tax. There are now hundreds of thousands of names and addresses missing from that database.

Currently Household Charge is collected centrally by govt agency. They want to transfer collection of property tax to revenue and yet continue to try to link it to local govt who have had effectively no input into devising and collecting these new taxes. The whole thing is now a shambles and the scaremongering and threats show that those responsible for this fiasco are beginning to panic.

 

[Complainer]

I doubt there will be any legal action. This is just Phil Hogan trying to scare people.

How did you come to that conclusion? What makes you think that the 1,000,000 people who HAVE paid their tax will stand by and let others get away with it?

Interestingly the letter was posted in Dublin which is not the country where the property is.

All the admin is being done by the LGMA at an operations centre on Ormond Quay in Dublin.

I don't see how this necessarily follows from the earlier point.

A lot of people object to the fact that the household charge was a flat amount, and therefore inherently unfair - a graded tax would probably enjoy greater support.

Indeed, and don't forget the 1,000,000 who have already paid and don't want to see a minority getting away with evading tax.

Problem is that govt was depending on Household Charge registrations for database on which to base property tax. There are now hundreds of thousands of names and addresses missing from that database.

Where did you get this figure of hundreds of thousands of missing names? The fact that people haven't paid yet doesn't mean their name is missing.

Regardless, time is on the side of the Government. It's not a huge deal for the Govt if it takes two or three or four years to catch up the few evaders, as the penalties mount all the time. With each development in technology, the Govt will be increasing the size and quality of their database, and will catch up with more and more people over time.

 

[mandelbrot]

This is scaremongering, and rather ineffective scaremongering at that. Most PAYE workers and dole recipients will scoff at the idea of a Revenue Audit. If Revenue divert their audit resources away from business audits in a quixotic attempt to enforce property tax compliance, the consequences will not be pretty, least of all for the Exchequer.

Firstly, thank you for helping me finally get around to looking up the meaning of quixotic!

I may not have been clear in my first post above: I was talking primarily about business customers, of whom there are surely tens of thousands (if not more) sole traders, partners and directors, who have chosen not to pay the HC. If the REAP system is fed information about the property tax (and you would expect that it will be if Revenue administer it), then non compliance with it will increase a person's perceived riskiness.

This means that all other things being equal, a person who hasn't paid their property tax will get audited before the person who has. It doesn't mean that someone with an otherwise pristine risk assessment will get audited purely by virtue of property tax non compliance. It does mean, as I said originally, that it does make one more likely to be audited.

 

[monore]

How did you come to that conclusion? What makes you think that the 1,000,000 people who HAVE paid their tax will stand by and let others get away with it?


All the admin is being done by the LGMA at an operations centre on Ormond Quay in Dublin.


Indeed, and don't forget the 1,000,000 who have already paid and don't want to see a minority getting away with evading tax.
.

A million have not paid. That is govt spin. And resentment from those that have paid towards those who were principled or smart enough to not pay although understandable is misguided. Why not direct your anger against speculator bondholders that you gladly bailed out rather that your struggling neighbor for his refusal to pay gambling debts of international hedge funds.

 

[monore]

Where did you get this figure of hundreds of thousands of missing names? The fact that people haven't paid yet doesn't mean their name is missing.

Regardless, time is on the side of the Government..

Time is not on side of govt. They have to decide pretty soon whether to proceed with property tax next year or have another HouseholdCharge. They don't have database for property tax and another year of Household Charge would be a disaster given numbers that haven't paid this year.