Another General Election

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We haven’t even got to discussing policies yet, nor are we likely to for some time as this political circus continues.
 
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Delboy said:
Or it could mean tackling the high cost of housing, bringing down prices for all buyers.
Lets have a referendum on property rights- surely we can draft something that allows for the pricing of development land, that stops hoarding of same etc? We have had referendi for a lot less serious subjects
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The cost of housing is set at the bottom end of the price curve by the cost of production and at the top end by demand. Cheap credit increases the cost of housing. Grants for first time buyers increases the cost of housing.
The major input cost in the price of a house is the construction cost. This should have dramatically reduced through the use of better technology and a reduction in wage demands after the crash. The cost of construction should be a minimum of 25% lower than it was 10 years ago and possibly as much as 50% lower. This hasn't happened. Forget about the government and referendums and all that nonsense and just have the state tender internationally for the large scale construction of state housing. Cut the expensive and inefficient Irish construction sector out of the process completely. When they are competitive again they can get back into the process.

We also need to stop giving out houses for life; social welfare asset transfers should never happen. People should rent their house from the state without owning them and only while they don't have the income to provide housing for themselves.
 
This is becoming a right shambles. There is unrest in a number of unions (whether that is opportunism or genuine grievances in all cases is a matter of opinion!). FF and FG seem more opposed to each other now than they were at the start of the process. The only option for taoiseach is Enda yet he doesn't seem to be winning much support from anyone outside of FG and even within FG he is on shaky ground. FF now say they won't sign any contract with a FG led minority government should one be formed so they can pull the plug at any stage.
At what point can anyone call a halt to this charade? Can the President intervene or can the politicians keep this going for another 7 weeks if they like? As things stand right now I can't see any way of a stable government being formed so unfortunately it looks like we'll end up with either an unstable government limping along until FF deem to mood and timing is right to pull the plug (and that they will come out well in public opinion by doing so) or else we're back to the polls again. I find the carry on by FG and particularly FF to be quite sickening this past number of weeks tbh. Michael McGrath last night on Prime Time saying they (FF) wanted to show people that politicians could be trusted to keep their pre-election promises ... well Michael one of your promises was for reform and all I have seen is old school politics at it's very worst and it's depressing.
 
Purple,
I wasn,t wanting to be {populist}.

My view is that unless people have a sense of place ,be it rental, ownership,social etc , we are quickly storing up a tsunami of costly social ills, that will well outway the obvious economic costs..
How we square this is down to a Leader taking an overview .
Should it mean , landlords get hit a bit = so be it.
Should it even mean some undeserving leg-lifters get sorted = so be it.
Should it mean solid payers of mortgages pay more to sort this = so be it.

I think we better get ready to pay more to sort ie, swallow that pill !

Delboy.
Agreed , I just don,t get this phobia on property rights.
Surely legislation could be enacted to NOW hit hoarders with a ratcheted annual charge ?
 
Gerry Canning said:
Purple,
I wasn,t wanting to be {populist}.

My view is that unless people have a sense of place ,be it rental, ownership,social etc , we are quickly storing up a tsunami of costly social ills, that will well outway the obvious economic costs..
How we square this is down to a Leader taking an overview .
Should it mean , landlords get hit a bit = so be it.
Should it even mean some undeserving leg-lifters get sorted = so be it.
Should it mean solid payers of mortgages pay more to sort this = so be it.

I think we better get ready to pay more to sort ie, swallow that pill !

Delboy.
Agreed , I just don,t get this phobia on property rights.
Surely legislation could be enacted to NOW hit hoarders with a ratcheted annual charge ?
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Sorry Gerry, I just don't understand how you can fix a housing shortage by "hitting" landlords again? What do you suggest? Even more of the taxes that have scared so many out of the market? Or more of the over-regulation that has done likewise? Or both? Or something else entirely?

Btw, where are all these hoarders? I don't see any hoarding going on. I see plenty of unoccupied houses though, many in various stages of dereliction, presumably because it is simply uneconomic to restore these to a reasonable standard in the absence of a functioning mortgage market.
 
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The country has an overload of ghost housing estates, shells of houses not completed, laid foundations for years, empty apartment blocks etc. Most of these are incomplete because of what happened during the recession and property taxes etc. I feel these properties will never be completed and remain a blot on the landscape.

Whatever way we look at these, I reckon it would be reasonably cheap to restart their building. There will be legal proceedings etc. However, if our politicians are serious about alleviating our housing crisis, these incomplete housing estates appear to be a relatively cheap part of the solution.
 
Leper said:
The country has an overload of ghost housing estates, shells of houses not completed, laid foundations for years, empty apartment blocks etc. Most of these are incomplete because of what happened during the recession and property taxes etc. I feel these properties will never be completed and remain a blot on the landscape.

Whatever way we look at these, I reckon it would be reasonably cheap to restart their building. There will be legal proceedings etc. However, if our politicians are serious about alleviating our housing crisis, these incomplete housing estates appear to be a relatively cheap part of the solution.
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But most of the unfinished houses are in the wrong place. If there was demand for them they would be finished. For the cost of one of the modular houses in Dublin you could buy a block of 6 apartments in places like Longford.
 
Slightly off topic but picking up point re housing crisis. It's obviously an emergency situation for the families involved and the Government... Can the families be moved to where the housing exists - albeit on a temporary e basis. So if Longford for example has 1000 houses- then that's a big dent of the housing list crisis - schools etc are available the dd with local services. If it was for a two/ three year period it might allow the councils to get back building in the interim and by the time the houses are available in the capital some families might even prefer the country - rural resettlement worked for some people before
 
Jumpstartdublin said:
So if Longford for example has 1000 houses- then that's a big dent of the housing list crisis - schools etc are available the dd with local services.

Longford does not have anything like 1000 houses to spare. What is available is either in the wrong place/ in bad condition or in unruly estates. The schools are at maximum capacity already. The nearest hospital is almost 50km away and that hospital is just at or about the basic level. The Dr's surgeries are already congested. It already has both a social and a drug problem. It has negligible employment. You would be creating a ghetto. It already has one of the highest proportions of social housing to private housing in the country. It has been totally neglected by all Governments for over 20 years. I do not live in it but I am very well acquainted with it.


If it was for a two/ three year period it might allow the councils to get back building in the interim and by the time the houses are available in the capital some families might even prefer the country - rural resettlement worked for some people before
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Nothing like this is ever temporary and with the amount of investment that would be involved it should not be temporary. That is generally what politicians usually do. Look at the quick fix solution recently where houses that were supposed to be completed at 100k ending up costing 240K
 
A lot of those in hotels etc seem to want to be housed where they grew up i.e. D1,3 or 8 for example. Longford or even closer locations such as Kildare are a no no for them
 
Never could understand that this could be used as an excuse but I know that it is. A huge amount of people have to move from one part of the country to another part for job reasons and they do it in order to survive
 
We know there is shortage of housing in the Dublin area. But, there is shortage of housing nearly everywhere. It ain't just Dublin, guys.
 
T Mc Gibney.

I wasn,t having a go @ landlords or indeed anyone .
What I had hoped to get across is that if we wait until , (hoarders)(landlords) (lenders) (renters) etc are all on song ,then nothing substantial will be done.

I see in my own area ,people refusing houses because it doesn,t suit them ! Now that really does my head in !
If you are on housing list and you get a property within your area ,say 4 miles , if you don,t take it ,you drop down the list and rent supplement is cut.

On funding for mortgages. Big issue is affordability , therefore Social Housing with rents that are sensible and importantly rents being collected seems the way to go.

(I ain,t in any way a housing expert just my observations)
 
losttheplot said:
But most of the unfinished houses are in the wrong place. If there was demand for them they would be finished. For the cost of one of the modular houses in Dublin you could buy a block of 6 apartments in places like Longford.
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I'm aware of one estate outside of Carlow where 18 months ago foundations were laid and the site has been largely sitting there since. I presume that was done to retain planning permission which was nearing expiry. There are plenty of homeless families in the county but the council doesn't have the funds to buy the estate in question and finish it off and allocate it as social housing
 
Gerry Canning said:
therefore Social Housing with rents that are sensible and importantly rents being collected seems the way to go.
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The term of the lease/rental agreement is also an issue; social housing for life is just crazy. The state should not give anyone a house with the expectation they can stay in it for the rest of their life no matter how their circumstances change.
 
I don,t have issue with State providing homes even for life , but should their circumstances change for the better so should their rent, in no way should they ever own what we paid for, rents should be realistic indexed and collected.
In that way there will be little advantage in staying as a Co Co renter in perpetuity, and would (incentivise) people to get their own homes..
 
Given where we are at, is it realistic to suppose that a minority government could formulate policies?

How would it agree a budget? Would that also go on for months? Given the intransigence on issues, such as water charges, would a budget ever be agreed?

What if the government had to react quickly to a global crisis?

Are they just delaying an inevitable second general election?
 
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