Alan Shatter's campaign to abolish Inheritance Tax

Based on my understanding of CAT, it’s the recipient of the money who would need to redomicile, not just the individual passing on the inheritance. So we’re not necessarily talking about people with lots of money, we’re talking about relatives of people with lots of money.

Add in that in Ireland there’s a lot of very wealthy people who don’t really see themselves as such because it’s all tied up in a PPR.

People typically receive inheritance at roughly age 50-60. Often peak career stage, maybe kids finishing out school/college. So these people would need to take a good guess at when their parents are going to die, move themselves & family to a different country and wait for that dreaded/glorious day to come….all to save 33% on money over a very generous threshold. These people must also be happy paying 52% on earned income to be here in the first place.

Throw in that you retain ‘ordinary residence’ for 3 years after leaving so you need to be gone out of Ireland for at least 3 years before the big day…easier to structure if it’s a gift before death but still a sizeable commitment and requires the parent to be willing to part ways with a substantial part of their wealth before death.

I think you’re talking mega levels of wealth to make all of that worthwhile…and even at that, would you really uproot your family to get €100m instead of €67m?

And in any case. Very wealthy people are masters at avoiding tax anyway. Doesn’t mean the taxes shouldn’t exist. Extreme cases make for bad policy.
 
Bike shed anyone?
 
Very rich man, with influence wants to put pressure on lawmakers so his accumulated assets can be passed on tax free.

BTW I hope he succeeds. Can’t stand the idea of more taxes on what we’ve paid income tax on already.
 
It’s like you didn’t even read my post. I literally spoke about parents retiring abroad and kids studying or working abroad at the same time.

Also, one could argue that, say, a €1m saving on €3m is more attractive than your extreme example of a €33m saving on €100m.
 
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Why is there no international movement to change the tax laws so that Irish citizens get taxed whether they live here or not?

Isn't that what the USA does?

And let the Double Taxation treaties ensure that people aren't taxed twice.

And bring in an estate tax for Irish citizens who die while resident abroad.

But it would be a bit hypocritical when we are a tax haven for overseas corporates.

Brendan
 
I just don’t see it as likely to be a widespread phenomenon that people with kids of studying age (I.e. parents 50-55, kids 20-25) both up sticks & pick universities based on locations with favourable inheritance laws in order to save CAT on a €3m inheritance.

Sure it might happen in a few fringe cases but it would be vanishingly small. Most 50 years olds with €3m to give to their kids are likely to be flat out, head down in the middle of an exec career or running an SME. Not pondering inheritance tax their kids might have to pay in 40 years time. It’s definitely not a risk that you would be terribly concerned by when setting tax policy.
Sure we nail people for 52% marginal income over 70k it’s not like everybody has left yet!

From my experience it’s only those with really extreme levels of wealth who typically engage in such drastic tax avoidance strategies.
 

Agree fully.

We design a lot of policy to discourage something which rarely happens, and thousands of people pay less tax as a result.

Brendan
 
Again you’ve chosen to ignore what I wrote and you’ve gone down a rabbithole in relation to specific ages that I never referenced. I said ‘study or work’.

You’ve also referenced ‘drastic tax avoidance strategies’, something I never referred to. I spoke about retired people having a place overseas and kids studying or working abroad.
 
Ok sorry I didn’t follow. You’re talking about a set of people where parents have gotten rid of their Irish ordinary resident status (through their retirement planning) and their children have also, coincidentally got a job or are studying in another country for 3+ years where there is no/low CAT. They then as a family see this as an opportune time to pass on wealth free of Irish CAT?.

1. I’m confident this would be a tiny tiny percentage of people
2. If this set up was not made purely for the purposes of avoiding CAT, it was merely just their life plans anyway, then their capital would have left Ireland anyway and therefore shouldn’t be considered a downside to Irelands CAT.
 
It doesn’t matter what percentage of ‘people’ it is.

What’s more relevant is the percentage of people with meaningful amounts more than €335,000 per child to give away.
 
Yes it does, it will need millions to take care of you when you, your spouse and your sisters /brothers get sick, old and need 24h nursing.
 
Yes it does, it will need millions to take care of you when you, your spouse and your sisters /brothers get sick, old and need 24h nursing.
Maybe the State should tax the estate of wealthy older people when they die in order to recoup some of the money it lavished on them in their last few years through the medical care system.

Some sort of inheritance tax perhaps?
 
Maybe the State should tax the estate of wealthy older people when they die in order to recoup some of the money it lavished on them in their last few years through the medical care system.

Some sort of inheritance tax perhaps?
or maybe just have them pay for the services they use as they use them so no need for inheritance tax
 
or maybe just have them pay for the services they use as they use them so no need for inheritance tax
In the vast majority of cases they couldn’t afford to pay for them as they use them. The average healthcare cost in the final year of life for a patient in the healthcare system is around €70,000 so in many cases it’s vastly more than that. 20% of patients consume 90% of our healthcare budget.
(I hate calling it healthcare when it’s actually sick care. Less than 5% of our health budget is spent on preventative medicine, i.e. healthcare.)
 
70k could be less than their inheritance tax so give them the option?