Alan Shatter's campaign to abolish Inheritance Tax

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misemoi said:
And of that 13%, how many of them will have just one inheritor? So that 1m could be split 4/5/6 etc ways.

And of that 1m, how much of it is in a house that has potentially doubled in value over the course of the last 20 years? Majority of my current wealth in unearned - tax free pension contributions and growth and a home that has capital appreciation that I did nothing to earn and therefore paid no tax on. If I put my money into shares instead of buying a house, I would be paying tax. So while I can benefit from the generous pension and PPR tax reliefs, if I crystalise the profit and gift them or leave them to my children as an inheritance, then they pay the tax. Seems fair to me!
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It’s 232,000 with a million or more / at least a million, not 232,000 with only a million!
 
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misemoi said:
And of that 13%, how many of them will have just one inheritor? So that 1m could be split 4/5/6 etc ways.

And of that 1m, how much of it is in a house that has potentially doubled in value over the course of the last 20 years? Majority of my current wealth in unearned - tax free pension contributions and growth and a home that has capital appreciation that I did nothing to earn and therefore paid no tax on. If I put my money into shares instead of buying a house, I would be paying tax. So while I can benefit from the generous pension and PPR tax reliefs, if I crystalise the profit and gift them or leave them to my children as an inheritance, then they pay the tax. Seems fair to me!
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Pension contributions and by extension pension pots is invested income (you have to have excess income in the first instance to be able to invest) with the risk associated with same. Why do you think pension contributions are tax free? The state is removing its risk to you when it comes to looking after yourself in old age. The state will recoup the "tax free" contributions when it comes to drawing down your pension as some people will end up paying the high rate of tax on their future pension and even if not the state pension and any other aged related benefits will no doubt be means tested in the future.

if your pension does not perform who is at the loss? You may have invested more into your pension pot then you get out of it. How many pension pots were wiped out following the 2008 financial crisis?
 

The Horseman said:
Pension contributions and by extension pension pots is invested income (you have to have excess income in the first instance to be able to invest) with the risk associated with same. Why do you think pension contributions are tax free? The state is removing its risk to you when it comes to looking after yourself in old age. The state will recoup the "tax free" contributions when it comes to drawing down your pension as some people will end up paying the high rate of tax on their future pension and even if not the state pension and any other aged related benefits will no doubt be means tested in the future.

if your pension does not perform who is at the loss? You may have invested more into your pension pot then you get out of it. How many pension pots were wiped out following the 2008 financial crisis?
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The pension lump sum (tax free) would be the potential to gift to kids. The taxed pension itself I will live off and will hardly have much saved out of it if I spend it the way I plan to! And my home is the other portion of my wealth I will pass on, the majority of the value of my home being unearned and is well in excess of the capital, interest and improvement payments I made out of after tax money. So I have not paid tax on either of those things. So if I give them away, the recipient will potentially pay tax.

Absolutely I am taking on the risk of my pension not being sufficient and being forced to rely on the state. But that is a separate argument to whether inheritance tax is fair or not.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
It 232,000 with a million or more / at least a million, not 232,000 with only a million!
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Of course, I made the classic mistake of not looking at the stats. Is there a further breakdown I wonder with more detail in this category rather than just an upper cut off? I might be shocked at the results!
 
Purple said:
Maybe the State should tax the estate of wealthy older people when they die in order to recoup some of the money it lavished on them in their last few years through the medical care system.

Some sort of inheritance tax perhaps?
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Exactly!
 
The Horseman said:
How many pension pots were wiped out following the 2008 financial crisis?
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Within a few short years the value of my pension was double what it was worth pre crash due to money printing and the resulting flood of cash into capital markets.

The same phenomenon doubled the price of my house. It also halved the value of labour relative to capital as there was no real wage inflation during the same period.

I got rich without earning a cent of it, just like so many other over 50’s who happened to own a home and have a pension before the crash. If you were a cynic you’d think that all the older property owning civil servants, central bankers and politicians were acting in their own self interest!
 
Purple said:
Within a few short years the value of my pension was double what it was worth pre crash due to money printing and the resulting flood of cash into capital markets.

The same phenomenon doubled the price of my house. It also halved the value of labour relative to capital as there was no real wage inflation during the same period.

I got rich without earning a cent of it, just like so many other over 50’s who happened to own a home and have a pension before the crash. If you were a cynic you’d think that all the older property owning civil servants, central bankers and politicians were acting in their own self interest!
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The value of your house rose because of supply and demand. If supply outstripped demand your house would lose value. The value of your house also increased because you upgraded your house, invested in its maintenance etc.

These all helped in increasing the value of your house. As in every business investing yields returns and you have "invested" in your home hence this investment has led to increase in value.
 
Scrap inheritance tax totally.
Reduce tax relief on pension contributions and major lump sums instead
 
KOW said:
Scrap inheritance tax totally.
Reduce tax relief on pension contributions and major lump sums instead
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So make inter generational wealth transfers tax free but tax the hell out of everything else?
Should be go back to having kings and earls and all that stuff too?
 
Purple said:
So make inter generational wealth transfers tax free but tax the hell out of everything else?
Should be go back to having kings and earls and all that stuff too?
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T McGibney said:
Many in this country and many on this site are almost obsessed with finding new and ingenious ways to tax others (and it's always others) as long and as hard as possible, while remaining blind to the general inefficacy of public expenditure generally and public expenditure waste in particular.
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I don’t think you can accuse me of being blind to the waste and inefficiency of public expenditure.
I’m also one of the people who will benefit significantly from the current inheritance tax system.
 
The Horseman said:
How many pension pots were wiped out following the 2008 financial crisis?
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Pretty much only those people who decided to go for a self directed pension so they could earn a packet by investing in Anglo shares, with a bit of AIB and BoI for diversification (a saw a few do that).
 
Purple said:
I don’t think you can accuse me of being blind to the waste and inefficiency of public expenditure.
I’m also one of the people who will benefit significantly from the current inheritance tax system.
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Not aimed at you at all. In fact, posted in support.
 
From the start of next year, a limit of 10million will apply to the value of business assets that family business owners can pass free of cgt to their children.
The minister is not happy with this situation and seeks to put in place a situation where there is no limit or cgt when passing on a business.

I was in the business of working as a PAYE worker for over 40yrs on in around the average industrial wage. But still paying tax at the higher rate.
I wish to be taxed at 33% when passing on my assets.
NOOOO.
 

Household Finance and Consumption Survey 2020 - Central Statistics Office

www.cso.ie www.cso.ie



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Table 2.1 Summary of results by year
Households with asset/debt (%) Median value 1(€)
20182020 20182020
Real assets
Household Main Residence (HMR)68.869.6 250,000260,000
Land8.48.9 301,000300,000
Other Real Estate Property12.912.5 200,600236,600
Self Employment Business Wealth17.315.2 18,60019,700
Vehicles78.579.1 8,00010,000
Valuables78.878.3 4,0004,100
Any Real Asset95.695.3 222,700253,100
Financial assets
Savings94.696.6 5,0008,700
Bond or Mutual funds10.313.6 10,0005,000
Shares9.710.5 6,2005,800
Voluntary Pension15.816.3 47,50037,600
Other Financial Asset6.67.2 10,00010,000
Any Financial Asset94.897.1 7,80013,300
Debt
Mortgage on HMR29.930.4 128,500124,400
Mortgage on Other Property9.47.2 105,400104,800
Non-mortgage loan46.445.5 6,6007,300
Overdraft10.76.7 600600
Credit Card debt39.826.8 1,000700
Any Debt71.868.1 21,40025,000
1 Conditional on participation.
 
Fortune said:
Pretty much only those people who decided to go for a self directed pension so they could earn a packet by investing in Anglo shares, with a bit of AIB and BoI for diversification (a saw a few do that).
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IIRC quite a few got sucked in when the bank shares fell quite a bit and a common view taken was that they were undervalued as a result. Little did they know that that initial fall was the lucky people getting out.
 
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