After Retirement

jpd said:
The lack of a suitable mix of housing in many areas is a huge disincentive for many older people to downsize as it often means they would have to leave the area and move away.

The planning process which encouraged or indeed only allowed a standard type of house to be built is at fault.

Many, many plans to add a mix of smaller houses and apartments into an area of standard 3- or 4- bedroom houses was met with dismay and stonewalled by the very people who now moan about the lack of suitable housing to move into.

The planners and politicians who are responsible for this state of affairs are only interested in the short term - ie can I get re-elected next year or the year after - long term housing planning is non-existent in this country
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Is it not the case that the developers want to build 4/5 beds where possible to maximize profit, the planners want 3/4 beds for families and the majority don't want to downsize but want to stay in the house that they have put so much into? So who wants a smaller 1/2 bed house? Only those willing to downsize and childless couples. That's not a big cohort of people.

Not being sentimental or good at DIY the idea of a small energy efficient 2 bed sounds great to me. Long way off though.
 
Plot size for a new build now vs a new build in 60s/70s/ Dublin must be considerably smaller. A common theme here is that garden maintenance gets tougher as people gets older. Whilst true, not every young person wants the luxury of maintaining a large garden either. As suggested the building in gardens of small 2 bed homes, is probably a good solution.
 
jpd said:
The lack of a suitable mix of housing in many areas is a huge disincentive for many older people to downsize as it often means they would have to leave the area and move away.

The planning process which encouraged or indeed only allowed a standard type of house to be built is at fault.

Many, many plans to add a mix of smaller houses and apartments into an area of standard 3- or 4- bedroom houses was met with dismay and stonewalled by the very people who now moan about the lack of suitable housing to move into.

The planners and politicians who are responsible for this state of affairs are only interested in the short term - ie can I get re-elected next year or the year after - long term housing planning is non-existent in this country
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Even if there is a mix it can get tricky,
I looked at downsizing in the area I lived in there was what I would call a suitable mix of housing when they were built,
I was shocked to find all the smaller units has been snapped up by buy to rent types who did not care who they were rented then to,

What once seemed like a lovely place to go live in retirement when built15 years ago, had turned into an unkept unsafe place to live, It was frightening to say the least,
 
Odea said:
Can you expand on this. I am not sure what you mean.

If the older owner has died, let's say the proceeds go to the children........how will this action increase supply?
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Apologies if point wasn't clear. The current inheritance tax threshold is 335k. The point I was making is that if the government incentivised the sales of properties for a short period of time by exempting the proceeds of the sale of properties from inheritance tax thresholds it may bring more family type homes on to market to address supply issues. This point is made in conjunction with exemptions for annexes or granny flats to be allowed also. It could in some instances encourage some older people to sell up move into a granny flat on a child's property and freeing up a house for young family.
 
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2bmortgagefree said:
Apologies if point wasn't clear. The current inheritance tax threshold is 335k. The point I was making is that if the government incentivised the sales of properties for a short period of time by exempting the proceeds of the sale of properties from inheritance tax thresholds it may bring more family type homes on to market to address supply issues. This point is made in conjunction with exemptions for annexes or granny flats to be allowed also. It could in some instances encourage some older people to sell up move into a granny flat on a child's property and freeing up a house for young family.
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I am retired I own 3 houses the one I live in at present is close to a large town worth quite a lot of money I would like to downsize and move further into town, I also own a house out the country a bit from where I live at present I rent it out there is also a workshop where I enjoy spending time,

the other house is quite a bit away close to where my son lives, I don't want to move away from the town I now live in, I would love to downsize and move closer to the town I now live in since I retired I have built up a network of friends who meet up any time any of us feel bored or want to have a coffee and chat or whatever,
Not interested in annexes or granny flats love the fact I am not in anybody's way, enjoying my retirement if I ever sell and move I will be taking up a house or apartment in the price range of the very people you are trying to help,

all of my family seem to be in their forever home and you want to forgo taxation in my favor the net result will be I take another house out of the price range of the average income worker and free up a house away out of their range,
I can tell you There is plenty of cash waiting to buy my house if I ever sell,

retirement is lovely when you can live where you want,
You know the saying better to live rich than to die rich so I will leave the Incentive you are suggesting behind me unless It suits me to move,;)
 
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Both are rented out both were bought with after-tax income one was derelict I brought it up to standard and rented it out to a couple one in their sixties the other over 70 he worked in the UK never married until he was in his sixties she second time round they have it like a dolls house,

I will not be selling it in their lifetime, I have left provision that it cannot be sold while they are still renting,I was advised against doing so but I bought it for small money I spent a good bit of time doing it up as an overnighter when I use the workshop I was approached to rent it to them as I said they have it like a dolls house,
The other house is rented close to where my son lives again I bought it for small money spent time finishing it off, the people renting it are a hardworking couple with a few kids who came to work in Ireland on low enough wages rent is on the low side they know the score keep it looking well and pay on time I am happy to leave rent the way it is, they have a good idea they can stay there unless the time comes when I need to be near my son for health reasons,
I will reply to the 66% tax in another post,
 
Early Riser said:
.

But you would not be thrown out. A rise in LPT all around (not just on the Leper household or on the over 60s, etc) would in my opinion, encourage a better use of the housing stock. If you are paying €600 and it rose to €6000 then you and Mrs. Leper are well capable of making a rational choice on whether to stay or move to somewhere with a lower rating (or attaching the charge to the house if you are unable to pay). Out of say every 1000 Leper households if 500 decided to move this would result in a greatly increase supply of family homes in a location desired by, and suitable for, the active workforce (and assuming this applies to your location).

But as mentioned by another poster, it is very unlikely to happen. Everyone likes to to moan about services, planning, housing, traffic, etc etc. but few see themselves being involved in the problem never mind the solution. And damn any politician who suggests otherwise.
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kinnjohn said:
How about 66% benefit in kind tax on the employer contributions section of all pensions including lump sum at drawdown and reinvest it in building extra homes, the real problem is a shortage of new builds

we could try out the benefit in kind on the pensions of those who suggested increasingLPT,:D
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Someone cash poor with only the contributory pension to live off of about 12000 euro would pay 50 % of their pension in LPT tax of 6000 euro
I suspect they were only getting a rise out of Leper, and I replied about the 66% tax,;)


I worked in the Private sector in Engineering back around 1980 I fell on my feet so to speak, The USA engineering Company I worked for wanted to retain engineering knowledge and limited direct worker turnover so they brought in a defined benefit pension and pay package so people on lower wages would not be in a hurry to leave and it worked in most cases
The linking the lowest-paid worker to the same pay scale as a P&T telephonist in the public service including lump sums
We paid 3 % they paid 12 % plus any top required to keep it fully funded it was capped once your wages went 50 % over the telephonist wage,

I finished on a very good pension thanks to my employer contributions other retirees who may have a good Employers funded pension would not miss 6000 going in LPT tax and like myself could pick and choose where to move to if they have not already moved because it suits them,

I don't believe any poster on here would like to see A large rise in the LPT on people who always paid their way to finish their final years being squeezed out of their own homes,
 
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kinnjohn said:
I finished on a very good pension thanks to my employer contributions other retirees who may have a good Employers funded pension would not miss 6000 going in LPT tax and like myself could pick and choose where to move to if they have not already moved because it suits them,

I don't believe any poster on here would like to see A large rise in the LPT on people who always paid their way to finish their final years being squeezed out of their own homes,
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I doubt that there is a very high proportion people living in €600,000+ homes and dependent on the State pension for a living. But no doubt there are some. But we all make decisions based on the prevailing economic incentives and disincentives to some extent. And such a person would not be "forced out" of his or her home. The charge could be deferred and discharged out of the estate. Or the person may choose to move. It would be good if singles/couples decided to move on from homes which are far too big for their current needs (and too demanding/costly to maintain) and allowed the housing stock to be recycled to working families. A bigger ongoing turnover of housing stock, combined with a substantial property tax, should help with regards to house price inflation also.

It might be tough with 3 houses though.:)
 
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Early Riser said:
I doubt that there is a very high proportion people living in €600,000+ homes and dependent on the State pension for a living. But no doubt there are some. But we all make decisions based on the prevailing economic incentives and disincentives to some extent. And such a person would not be "forced out" of his or her home. The charge could be deferred and discharged out of the estate.

It might be tough with 3 houses though.:)
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I am not P what is his name from Mayo:)

we could bring in;) a deluded surcharge

The views you expressed are not unusual but I never ever heard them expressed by people affected by the housing shortage,
 
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Some great posts here from people who have looked at downsizing and shared their views on the pros and cons.
We haven't heard from many who have actually downsized and moved on. It would be interesting to hear some feedback from them
 
Where are you coming up with LPT of €6K. That's for a house worth over €2M. Someone with a house worth €2M should be paying LPT and if they cant afford it, they cant afford to live in their house or they can easily afford to defer and it will come out of their estate.

We are far too fond of feeling sorry for pensioners who are have very high property assets,
 
hi huskerdu,
early riser came up with a figure of 6k they also mentioned a figure of 600k house the way I read the post is LPT at 1% of value,
in other words, 20k LPT on a house worth 2million,
Of course, you could not single out any one generation and tax them differently so you know where we are heading enjoy,
 
Thats not correct. Where did you get the idea that LPT was 1%?

Here are the rates. Its complicated at the moment due to the revaluation which will happen in Nov this year.
The LPT on a house which is currently worth €600K is likely to be €585

www.thejournal.ie

Here are the new Local Property Tax bands

Most of those who face an increase in the tax will pay an extra €90 per year, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe said.
www.thejournal.ie www.thejournal.ie
 
But Truffado and early riser in the posting is making the case that we should increase LPT on empty nesters to force them to move,
I know The suggestion is crazy and was replying to the following post NO83 by Truffado post no 85 by leper
post no 119 by Early riser and post no 122 again by early riser,
I am enjoying a lovely day today out in the garden I get the feeling you are also enjoying your day,

I will check back tonight,
 
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huskerdu said:
We are far too fond of feeling sorry for pensioners who are have very high property assets,
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I feel sorry for the people who suggested raising the LPT to 1% to solve the housing crises if people can raise a mortgage to buy a 2M home I don't think they need Government Help,
 
kinnjohn said:
But Truffado and early riser in the posting is making the case that we should increase LPT on empty nesters to force them to move,
I know The suggestion is crazy and was replying to the following post NO83 by Truffado post no 85 by leper
post no 119 by Early riser and post no 122 again by early riser,
I am enjoying a lovely day today out in the garden I get the feeling you are also enjoying your day,

I will check back tonight,
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That's not correct sir\madam.

I suggested LPT should rise on all properties (to fund badly-needed local services). If a side-effect on this is to incentivize some empty nesters to downsize, that would help alleviate our housing crisis.
 
kinnjohn said:
I feel sorry for the people who suggested raising the LPT to 1% to solve the housing crises if people can raise a mortgage to buy a 2M home I don't think they need Government Help,
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There’s a good chance that the person didn’t pay €2m for the home.

Let’s say they paid €1.5m.

So they paid €20k in stamp duty.

Their salaries would need to be around €350k a year to borrow €1.2m, assuming that they put down €300k.

So they’re probably paying over €150k per year in income tax/USC/PRSI.

But €20k of property tax per year out of left field would be a kick in the teeth for someone who’s already paying out more than their fair share.
 
If the Government of the day was crazy enough to increase LPT by up to 400% 500% as suggested you can be sure the only people finishing up paying it will be high earners who have overpaid their mortgage,
Empty nesters downsizing to a smaller unit could pay around 1M for an apartment if they wanted to stay safe and close to where they lived all of their life in Dublin,
You also have to take into account empty nesters downsizing with lots of cash will drive apartment prices up
Squeezing out the very people needing help,

I hear people making the same argument as posters to increase LPT on houses over 500K knowing it will not affect them,

I had intended to downsize on retirement The problem is finding something suitable to buy at present,
One thing I have noticed there is quite a few apartments left vacant at present around where I live in the large blocks,

In the mixed housing area, I was hoping to buy an apartment built especially for empty nesters all got snapped up by buy to let types the clientele rented them are not the type you would like as neighbors in your old age, the area itself is nice,
 
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