Advice for disciplinary meeting

[Gerry Canning]

Roger,

Your name is rightly very important .
Can I suggest send a short and well worded letter to the MD.
Outline your overall concern, particularly on your professional good name and simply request that all previous and current (disciplinary) action be scrubbed .
Advise him that @ this stage you request full closure and an end to this.

Suggest ,do not go into (he said,she said,I said ), that's the road to more of a row ! because from experience your detractors will try to re-defend.
Try to keep your cool, (from the thread you are far too hot)

I ain,t saying you are wrong but least said = easier mended.

 

[Leo]

Thanks Leo - the outcome I am looking for at this stage is simply someone to take a truely independent view of what has happened from Day 1 and I believe in doing so I will have my good name back. Bear in mind that people who report to me were interviewed about me in the hope that something would stick so in their eyes I have been damaged, the same applies to the other managers who were "investigated". So, I'm not interested in windfalls - I've been a manager for > 20 years and I don't want to have some corporate seagull staining my reputation.

In a private company, it will never be possible to get a truely independent view. You can see how hard it it in the various public bodies from the tribunals of the last number of years, there is no mechanism to get where you want to in a private company.

If a manager has a complaint made against them, it's standard practice to interview their reports. That is done even if senior management believe the complaint is without foundation just to gather facts. I'd be more worried if they didn't. If you're a good manager and look after your team, they'd most likely back you up.

 

[Leo]

I don't see why that would be the case. The manager signed off on something therefore the other employee could safely presume everything was kosher.

Agreed, it would be unfair on the employee if they were sanctioned for something their manager approved. That is the purpose of multiple layers of approval/ oversight.

 

[rogeroleary]

Hi Roger (again) There is much going on on this thread and I am getting a little confused. Without informing us of what company you work for, can you say how much you earn and the extent of your working responsibilities? I am asking this just so that I can get a handle on what type of manager you are. If you supervise people, how many?

. . . and just to throw a spanner in the works . . . if you do not come out of this favourably, what will be your losses? And probably to offend you a bit more, if you win what are the consequences? Is there middle ground for settlement?

Hi Roger (again) There is much going on on this thread and I am getting a little confused. Without informing us of what company you work for, can you say how much you earn and the extent of your working responsibilities? I am asking this just so that I can get a handle on what type of manager you are. If you supervise people, how many?

. . . and just to throw a spanner in the works . . . if you do not come out of this favourably, what will be your losses? And probably to offend you a bit more, if you win what are the consequences? Is there middle ground for settlement?

Hi Lep, this is a very large organisation - one of the largest in Ireland...actually one of the largest in the world. Like the other managers involved I would earn > €100k p.a. and we all manage teams in 3 or 4 geos, in addition to this we would be cardholder (admin manager) for a bunch of people in Ireland (most of who never come into the office as they work remotely...which is the case in question). So, responsibility for c.40 worldwide in my case.

If I don't come out favourably my performance rating could be impacted, salary increases affect, annual bonus eliminated, promotion prospects canned for 3 years - to be brutally honest I can live with all of that....it really does come down to my good name. If I win I get back my good name and I'd like to think someone up the food chain will do a serious post mortem as to how this was allowed to go out of control.

If I have to go to a 3rd party, in the event of any compensation being awarded I would be more than happy for that to be donated to a charity. So, there is LOADS of middle ground, the problem is that these Corporate Investigators have to show a deliverable and unfortunately in this case it's likely to be myself and some colleagues.

This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language happens

 

[rogeroleary]

I don't see why that would be the case. The manager signed off on something therefore the other employee could safely presume everything was kosher.

I don't agree Purple, if an employee was not working shift but submitted a form indicating they had surely that's a disciplinary issue? This is not the case here but I'm making the point that if the investigation determines that the manager approved a payment that was not warranted, surely by extension the employee is implicated also by the fact that they are making a false claim.

 

[rogeroleary]

Roger,

Your name is rightly very important .
Can I suggest send a short and well worded letter to the MD.
Outline your overall concern, particularly on your professional good name and simply request that all previous and current (disciplinary) action be scrubbed .
Advise him that @ this stage you request full closure and an end to this.

Suggest ,do not go into (he said,she said,I said ), that's the road to more of a row ! because from experience your detractors will try to re-defend.
Try to keep your cool, (from the thread you are far too hot)

I ain,t saying you are wrong but least said = easier mended.

I understand where you are coming from Gerry but sadly it wouldn't get anywhere in this mothership.

Thanks all the same.

 

[rogeroleary]

In a private company, it will never be possible to get a truely independent view. You can see how hard it it in the various public bodies from the tribunals of the last number of years, there is no mechanism to get where you want to in a private company.

If a manager has a complaint made against them, it's standard practice to interview their reports. That is done even if senior management believe the complaint is without foundation just to gather facts. I'd be more worried if they didn't. If you're a good manager and look after your team, they'd most likely back you up.

Fully agree Leo and just to clarify - no employee has made a complaint against me, quite the opposite in fact. I wanted to get a copy of witness (employee) statements because what was made available we very short extracts from the investigators report and from talking with employees they tell me their words were twisted and they were being quoted out of context. I do believe that because I have seen a short extract of my own and it's not correct, the wording is selective at best but doesn't reflect a 45 minute meeting where individuals were ambushed.

 

[Purple]

I don't agree Purple, if an employee was not working shift but submitted a form indicating they had surely that's a disciplinary issue? This is not the case here but I'm making the point that if the investigation determines that the manager approved a payment that was not warranted, surely by extension the employee is implicated also by the fact that they are making a false claim.

Sure, but I presumed we are not talking about deliberate fraud.

 

[rogeroleary]

Sure, but I presumed we are not talking about deliberate fraud.

absolutely......by either the employee or the manager

 

[Leper]

Hi Roger, Thanks for being so patient with my last post. I note you started this thread in March 2015 and referred to a series of company meetings going back into 2014 concerning earlier work practices. Lots have happened with other employees in your company being interviewed about some ongoing allegations and subsequently one senior company official cleared all his interviewees and the other company official fingered you as a wrong-doer.

We don't know the seriousness of your alleged transgressions, but your professional reputation within the company is at stake. You earn around €100,000.00 per annum. I hope I called your situation correctly.

The company probably wants to close the subject and I think you need the matter closed too. Is there any chance of a 0 - 0 draw on the matter? Justice delayed is Justice denied. Let's say you play hard-ball and win - will the company do you harm in the future? If you lose - what have you lost? If this is just a matter of jam on your face, you haven't lost much and perhaps you can be elevated by your colleagues as an unjustly smitten company martyr. For a moment, let's cast inhibitions aside; I'd be thinking of the €100,000.00. Remember, you cannot eat principle.

The above being the case, you continue to work but probably not at the pace you have been. Has it dawned on you that some of your work colleagues have something to gain by your situation? Is it likely that they have used all available means to discredit you? Perhaps it is time for a closed mouth, opened eyes and primed ears? If you take what is happening on the chin, you don't have to leave the matter die. I have found (even in the public service) that many will use any means at their disposal to improve their earnings and if this is climbing unjustly on the back of innocents, their conscience isn't even budged.

I have always felt that the truth always emerges. It will take time but it will come and perhaps you can then retaliate aggressively?