Adults and computer gaming

One other thing -
How well would your art exhibition fare if every second person sneaked in and didn't pay? - or if most people had the same mindset as you and didn't pay?

You may have spent years creating your artworks, months preparing for the exhibition and would probably have spent a fortune hiring and promoting it. After all that time, effort and money, the exhibition failed because people decided they didn't want to pay. Indeed, they took advantage of your work and money, but didn't pay you.

Would that not bother you? Would you do another exhibition?

Many software developers do not make much money. People like you will destroy software development and make life that little bit worse for everyone. It's parasitic.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I write software. This takes my time and presence. It takes years of training and keeping up with technology as well.
Why do you think I should do this for you, for free?

Anyone that is using the product for free certainly is costing me money. If everyone decides to steal the software, then I'll have to get a job doing something else.

I just don't understand why people can't see that this is nothing short of theft.
Do you steal books and sneak into cinemas without paying as well?
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Do you ever pay cash for jobs? or get paid cash for jobs. Even if you are morally perfect there are many others who take certain views to suit their needs at the time. It's not fair but it is how things happen.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I just don't understand why people can't see that this is nothing short of theft.
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Its because its so easy to make copies that are indisinguishable from the original.
People think, oh what harm, sure I can copy this uploaded version, its the same as the original version, sure who am I harming? Isnt it so easy? Surely if I wasnt supposed to be doing it itd be harder to do?
Same goes for pirate dvds.

Not so for books, too long to go and photocopy an entire book and bind it into anything like its original format.

I am against piracy in all its forms. I hear so many people these days going on about the latest movie theyve watched - illegally - and it disgusts me. Even in work people talk about this openly as though its not a big deal. Its a crime, would they come in and talk about stealing from a shop so easily?
 
Do you ever pay cash for jobs? or get paid cash for jobs. Even if you are morally perfect there are many others who take certain views to suit their needs at the time. It's not fair but it is how things happen.
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No, I'm not perfect, ethically or otherwise.
However, I don't knowingly steal stuff. I don't ever get paid cash for jobs, and pay all the taxes that the government want.
I do pay cash to other people for jobs if that is their payment terms. It is then up to that person to pay their taxes.

The problem with theft is, where do you draw the line? Is it okay to steal from Microsoft, but not the local butcher, or your next door neighbour?
 
umop3p!sdn said:
No, I'm not perfect, ethically or otherwise.
However, I don't knowingly steal stuff. I don't ever get paid cash for jobs, and pay all the taxes that the government want.
I do pay cash to other people for jobs if that is their payment terms. It is then up to that person to pay their taxes.

The problem with theft is, where do you draw the line? Is it okay to steal from Microsoft, but not the local butcher, or your next door neighbour?
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Like I said, we see things as how we want to suit ourselves. When someone is paid cash it is generally a payment that involves no tax and is subsequently cheaper to the consumer.
 
Like I said, we see things as how we want to suit ourselves. When someone is paid cash it is generally a payment that involves no tax and is subsequently cheaper to the consumer.
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Like I said, other people's tax affairs are their business.
Some people prefer cash as cheques can bounce.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Like I said, other people's tax affairs are their business.
Some people prefer cash as cheques can bounce.
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Pay cash, insist on vat receipts, should the usher at the cinema say leave your money on your seat when your leaving as i'm sure your an upstanding citizen, same principle.
I don't have a problem paying cash myself as I know it will work out cheaper for me, morally unsound but its the truth at least.
 
Whats the feeling on Youtube then?, or games that you play online (but never download). Is Youtube much different to listening to the radio?? Did you ever tape a song from the radio as a kid?? - ya mercenary copyright infringer

All I'm saying is there are blurred lines vis a vis enjoying free entertainment on/via the web. & in case anyone gets the notion, I'm not a "pirate", I've never made a cent from any copied stuff (made a bit of pocket money about 20 years ago (that was punts!! ;)) but that was just hobbying - like Denis O'Brien selling Mars bars as a school kid- wonder was he registered with RGDATA???). And as I've said I dont agreeing with buying copied stuff from crims.

As I played a few games last night (old arcade) I see they were made in the 80's and even 1 from the 70's, & I wonder do people send money to Toyota ever time they offload an auld Starlet??, if they havent made their money by now its all the one.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I just don't understand why people can't see that this is nothing short of theft.
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I love technicalities and I'm as against the morality of this as those involved (I have several friends connected with the music industry who have been heavily affected by downloading), but it isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. It isn't comparable to stealing a car or a loaf of bread in the same way that you can’t compare slander to criminal assault.

However, on with the OP. I grew up with the evolution of gaming and I can still see the draw. I’ve avoided buying the latest generation of machines mainly due to time to play and that if I were to play I probably would get immersed in the games to the extent I’m playing them until 4 am.

It’s like a 24 DVD box set where you just can’t let it go, you have to keep watching. The difference with some of these games is you’re controlling everything.

I know it’s sad, indicative of deeper fixations during my formative years and an explanation for the retardation of certain key social skills, yet if I don’t get to inflict genocide on a digital alien race at least once a year, I feel something is lacking in my life.
 
I love technicalities and I'm as against the morality of this as those involved (I have several friends connected with the music industry who have been heavily affected by downloading), but it isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. It isn't comparable to stealing a car or a loaf of bread in the same way that you can’t compare slander to criminal assault.
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This crowd would disagree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Against_Software_Theft

As a software developer the terms, 'copyright infringement' and 'theft' have the same consequences for me. I prefer to use the term 'theft'.

It's also interesting to see where the 'copyright infringers', or 'thieves' try to justify their position on this thread. The situation is clear, copyright infrigement (or theft) is illegal. What I do, or what other people do is irrelevent. It's still illegal. There are consequences and victims. People will lose jobs etc.

I've made my point, and don't have anything else to add to this off-topic discussion.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
This crowd would disagree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Against_Software_Theft

As a software developer the terms, 'copyright infringement' and 'theft' have the same consequences for me. I prefer to use the term 'theft'.

It's also interesting to see where the 'copyright infringers', or 'thieves' try to justify their position on this thread. The situation is clear, copyright infrigement (or theft) is illegal. What I do, or what other people do is irrelevent. It's still illegal. There are consequences and victims. People will lose jobs etc.

I've made my point, and don't have anything else to add to this off-topic discussion.
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People are losing jobs, so there is no "will" there and all you say is correct, but it still isn't theft. That crowd and any other interest group can say what they will, copyright infringment is a civil issue not a criminal. The only time it becomes criminal is when someone tries to sell the copies.
 
Latrade said:
People are losing jobs, so there is no "will" there and all you say is correct, but it still isn't theft. That crowd and any other interest group can say what they will, copyright infringment is a civil issue not a criminal. The only time it becomes criminal is when someone tries to sell the copies.
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So downloading an illegal copy of a movie is NOT theft, but shoplifting a copy of the DVD from HMV is theft - is that what you're saying?

There is no moral or ethical difference between these two scenarios.
 
Latrade said:
I know it’s sad, indicative of deeper fixations during my formative years and an explanation for the retardation of certain key social skills, yet if I don’t get to inflict genocide on a digital alien race at least once a year, I feel something is lacking in my life.
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This is not a "personals"/dating service, Latrade. Please read the Posting Guidelines.

;)
 
Breach of copyright is not a moral issue. It's a technical/legal issue and depending where you might live on the planet or what age you are it may or may not be theft. I would suggest that it is thanks to 'illegal' downloaders that CDs and DVDs have come down in price over the last couple of years.
 
Complainer said:
So downloading an illegal copy of a movie is NOT theft, but shoplifting a copy of the DVD from HMV is theft - is that what you're saying?

There is no moral or ethical difference between these two scenarios.
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Correct, it isn't the same. Downloading a ripped copy of a movie is the same offence as a band sampling or producing a very similar record to another artist without crediting the original or paying royalties. Intellectual property is a separate field, it isn't open to theft, conversion or anything else as it isn't tangible.

And yes, morally and ethically it is still wrong and I strongly disagree with it, but I also disagree with trying to criminalise kids for a civil offence.


DrMoriarty said:
This is not a "personals"/dating service, Latrade. Please read the Posting Guidelines.

;)
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You'd be surprised at just how often that line of mine works. Never.
 
No more posts from Vanilla. Look at all the trouble you guys have gotten her poor husband into.
 
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