Accountant fees

ubiquitous said:
Anyone, anywhere in Ireland can set themselves up as an accountant, and practice without any minimum requirement for training, experience, qualifications, integrity or financial solvency.
Click to expand...
Your 2 quotes above do not tally ubiquitous. You cannot have it every way and you have been caught out again.
 
mf1 said:
I have accountancy friends who will be at work until midnight tonight dealing with the crazy folk who did not get their act together in time to get their affairs in order and pay their taxes in time. And those clients should and will be billed triple time.
mf
Click to expand...

I know lots of accountants and none of them ever - and I mean ever - work until midnight. Far from it in fact. And when does the triple time start? For those who come with work to be done in August ? Or Sept ? or Oct ? And when is the cut-off time ? Will people who ask for work to be done on the 15th of October for example be charged "normal rates" and those who come on the 16th October be charged "triple" rates, which you justify ? And will the client be told he is being charged triple time or will he / she just be invoiced x thousand euro ? Does it depend - like seemingly so much to do with accountants invoicing - on the mood of the accountant at a particular point in time ?

N.B. I know of accountants who were asked to do work 2 months ago and they still have not - any chance of them working normal time never mind until 12 midnight I wonder.
 
Posted byr rabbit
Originally Posted by ubiquitous
newly qualified accountants are not allowed to set up in practice, regardless of whether or not they are technically competent to do vat returns.

Originally Posted by ubiquitous
Anyone, anywhere in Ireland can set themselves up as an accountant, and practice without any minimum requirement for training, experience, qualifications, integrity or financial solvency.
Your 2 quotes above do not tally ubiquitous.
Click to expand...

Let me explain

The accountancy practice sector is wide open in this country. Anyone who wants to practice can do so. A youngster can set up a practice on the day he leaves school. A convicted fraudster can set up a practice on the day he is released from prison. An undischarged bankrupt can set up a practice the day after he is made bankrupt. In short there are no barriers to entry to the industry.

That said, a large proportion of practising accountants are qualified and hold practising certificates from an accountancy Institute. These Institutes are responsible for regulating their members and enforce strict standards on them. Any client who is aggrieved by an accountant's actions/inaction/fees etc can make a formal complaint to the accountant's Institute and the Institutes have legally-enforceable powers to fine, reprimand or expel their members if they see fit.

As Graham said above, the Institutes' regulations include a stipulation that newly qualified accountants need 3 years post-qualification experience before they can apply for a practising certificate, or open & operate their own practice. This is part of the Institutes' respective quality control procedures, which are ultimately to protect the interest of their members' clients.

However, this "3 years post-qualification experience" rule only applies to Institute members. It does not apply to the many accountants out there who are not members of an Institute.

Hence my two statements do not contradict each other.

You cannot have it every way and you have been caught out again.
Click to expand...
Again ??? :rolleyes:
 
rabbit said:
I know lots of accountants and none of them ever - and I mean ever - work until midnight.
Click to expand...

I worked until 11.30pm last night. I worked until 10pm on Tuesday night. I took Monday night off (too tired) but worked all day last Saturday and Sunday. I don't think my experience is uncommon. And no, I did not charge triple time for doing so. On the other hand, I do not expect to be a martyr for my clients and I do expect to be paid a decent rate for facilitating my clients in helping them to meet the deadline. Thankfully my clients are happy to reciprocate by doing so. If they're not happy to do so, they are free to go elsewhere for this service.
 
rabbit said:
I know lots of accountants and none of them ever - and I mean ever - work until midnight.

N.B. I know of accountants who were asked to do work 2 months ago and they still have not - any chance of them working normal time never mind until 12 midnight I wonder.
Click to expand...

Rabbit.. . for someone with a pretty clearly declared unfavourable opinion of the accountancy profession, you appear to spend a lot of time around accountants...maybe you should get out more and associate with , say engineers or no wait, solicitors, no no no hang on I got it, Veterinarians. I hear they're a good bunch. :D
 
Last edited:
If yer so busy will ye get off this and do yer work or ye will be in till 12 again tonight
 
And just in case anyone is confused about the working 'til midnight........

November 15th is final, final, no excuses, end of the line on-line filing with Revenue income tax returns. I doubt you will find a tax accountant in an office tomorrow morning - they will all be in recovery mode.

Poor babes.

mf
 
I am only getting back to this thread after a busy week. Glad to see my initial observation on Rabbit's comments have not got out of hand.... ;)

There are many many criteria to judge an accounatnt on, and yes rabbit, price is one of them, but not the only one. Quality, Accuracy, Efficiency, Accessibility, Knowledge, the tax they save you, and Value for Money are but a few.

My advice is to never skimp on an accountant on the sole basis of price. By that constraint alone you will end up with the cheapest (not the best / most suitavle) and it will cost you more in the end - in lost tax savings, missed opportunities or paying another (better / more suitable) accountant to fix mistakes.
 
TripleA said:
There are many many criteria to judge an accounatnt on, and yes rabbit, price is one of them, but not the only one. Quality, Accuracy, Efficiency, Accessibility, Knowledge, the tax they save you, and Value for Money are but a few.
Click to expand...
Of course price is not the only one. You imply from your comments above that there is a lack of consistency of your criteria in the accountancy profession, and you are correct there. However having had dealings with many accountants over the past number of years, and having discussed the issue with numerous other business people, we have found that some accountants who charge rip-off prices do not necessarily offer a better service than those who charge lower prices. I am sure there are some "accounatnts" who offer value for money, but it does pay to shop around, like everything else.
 
I too worked long hours in the last few weeks. I worked 110 hours in the week to the 15th. I did though get paid for it!!. I got paid the equivalent of 4 weeks work. I know plenty of accountants who work until 12 O clock at night and later. Dont feel sorry for them. It was their choice to do so.
All of the work done in this week was on clients affairs who were asked, threatened, pleaded with to bring in their records earlier but who did not do so. However, foolishly or not, my policy is to get all returns done if at all possible. We usually do all except a handful who are missing information. My staff also work long hours for these few weeks. For the people who bring in their books in the last week I charge 1.5 time my normal rates. This is to compensate me and my staff for working unsocial and long hours. My office closed on Friday and boy did I enjoy the sleep in. First day off in 6 weeks! My customers all got notice of what I charged and receive a letter of engagement for all work done. Prices are not dicatated by my humour they are dictated by the amout of hours worked multiplied by a charge out rate applicable to the type of work being done and the seniority of the person doing it. If I have a problem with a client I tell him face to face and if this does not work I sack him. Every year I sack at least 4 clients who mess around with my work schedule. I would suggest to other accountants that this is the way to go.
However Rabbit is correct in that some accountants do take the mickey when it comes to fees. If this happens check your letter of engagement and then ask for a breakdown of your fees. If they have not or do not issue you with a letter of engagement you have a case to bring to their institute. If they are not qualified you have no case. In the last few years I have seen major issues with people who have used unqualified accountants. Taxes hugely underpaid - taxes hugely overpaid and subject to the 4 year rule therefore lost, etc.. Rabbit has a point. It is up to the accountancy institutes to sort out the rogues.
 
simplyjoe said:
If they have not or do not issue you with a letter of engagement you have a case to bring to their institute.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify - the ICAI for example recommend engagement letters as good practice but don't regard them as mandatory except for statutory audit assignments. That said, I personally wouldn't dream of taking on a client without issuing a letter of engagement.
 
ubiquitous said:
I don't think this is correct - the ICAI for example recommend engagement letters as good practice but don't regard them as mandatory except for statutory audit assignments. That said, I personally wouldn't dream of taking on a client without issuing a letter of engagement.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
simplyjoe said:
It is up to the accountancy institutes to sort out the rogues.
Click to expand...

It is to those who are regulated. But its those accountants that are unregulated and in some cases unqualified where the problem largely is (in my opinion)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top