Dr Strangelove
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That’s the “written record”.
"43,000 landlords exiting the market..." but how many are buying in?
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
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T McGibney
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And in that particular case it's demonstrably wrong, not as a record of who was living in a particular household on a given night, but who was living there on a habitual basis at that time.
Predictably this will be used to say LLs aren't leaving.
dublininquirer.com
A different issue but on the same page literally and figuratively.
dublininquirer.com
Census data raises questions about narrative that landlords are fleeing the market - Dublin Inquirer
There are more rented homes now than there were in 2016, it shows. Even as there are fewer registered tenancies, according to the Residential Tenancies Board.
dublininquirer.com
A different issue but on the same page literally and figuratively.
Landlord behind Swords evictions has issued a steady drip of similar notices across its properties - Dublin Inquirer
Between October 2022 and June 2023, 89 households renting from subsidiaries of LRC RE-1 got similar notices, Residential Tenancies Board figures show.
dublininquirer.com
"Rent a room" does not apply to self contained units. Its for people renting out a room and thus operating like a house share, except that one resident actually owns the building.
Rent a room probably has its own stats via Revenue, but its also notorious for poor practice, as RTB doesn't apply, nor do the normal "rules" on evictions etc. I'd still imagine its the owner who is filling out the census in those cases who would put it down as owner occupied.
Subletting is another issue - don't think its as bad here as it is in London, but I did notice that some of the worst "slum" type lets were cases where the actual landlord had let an entire home to a tenant who then realised they could squeeze in bunks and sublet to migrants who wouldn't realise they were being squeezed.
I've a theory on this though, in that there has been considerable activity on "investment" units in recent years - there was 2 different fire sales of "pre 63" units a couple of years ago - one had 279 units and the other around 250. That's 500 units - in a market with circa 300k units thats a huge figure.
Here's the current listing for "investment" from one EA - https://www.oconnorshannon.ie/investments
I tried to estimate recently the total number of "pre 63" units by deducting houses and apartments from the census (assuming that census was correctly delineating purpose built apartments from pre 63 converted flats). The figure for 2022 seems to be around 30,000 units.
One retiring landlord selling 5 of these could actually be selling what was up to 50-60 homes. It would have a disproportionate impact because of the type of unit (small & cheap) offered. But a lot of them are sold fully let, compared to individual ex rental sales, which are more likely to be sold with vacant possession.
Here's the current listing for "investment" from one EA - https://www.oconnorshannon.ie/investments
I tried to estimate recently the total number of "pre 63" units by deducting houses and apartments from the census (assuming that census was correctly delineating purpose built apartments from pre 63 converted flats). The figure for 2022 seems to be around 30,000 units.
One retiring landlord selling 5 of these could actually be selling what was up to 50-60 homes. It would have a disproportionate impact because of the type of unit (small & cheap) offered. But a lot of them are sold fully let, compared to individual ex rental sales, which are more likely to be sold with vacant possession.
I suspect given the stats (from a fews years back) where ratio of properties per LL is slowly increasing. That it was mostly the smaller LLs getting out. No idea if thats still true.
All that really matters is supply vs demand. The number of LLs or Number of properties (or tenancties) per LL, is a secondary issue. I doubt it significantly influences the stats or the market. IMO, a company is likely to push the profit margin more than small LL. But the primary driver will still be supply. IMO.
All that really matters is supply vs demand. The number of LLs or Number of properties (or tenancties) per LL, is a secondary issue. I doubt it significantly influences the stats or the market. IMO, a company is likely to push the profit margin more than small LL. But the primary driver will still be supply. IMO.
*
If this unit is not attached to the property it cannot qualify for the relief.”
Max stuff total contradictory interpretations from two state agencies.
Citizens information “if you rent out a self-contained unit in your home, such as a converted garage attached to your home or a basement flat, the rights and obligations under residential tenancies legislation apply to you. For example, you must register the tenancy with the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) every year,
Revenue.ie “Self-contained unit
The rented room or rooms can be a self-contained unit within the house, such as a basement flat or a converted garage.If this unit is not attached to the property it cannot qualify for the relief.”
Max stuff total contradictory interpretations from two state agencies.
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No, not 2 different interpretations. There are 2 different pieces of legislation. It's possible for a self contained unit, directly attached to a house, to qualify for 'rent a room' tax relief, but still need to be registered with RTB.
The technical term is "licensee" not guest. A house guest does not pay rent.
While status may be equivalent to that afforded a guest, and some sites use the term guest in an attempt to simplify the language, the legislation covering this does not reference the term 'guest' when describing their rights or entitlements.
What is a company though? A lot of disinformation is around in this area, with the false narrative that companies who own several rental units are all giant money management companies domiciled in an offshore tax haven. The reality is that a lot of these companies have been formed by individuals of family groups with several rental properties each to roll together their investment properties into a single company. There's LOADs of these now - they are really no different to the serial landlords of 20 years ago. Even 20 years ago, a huge chunk of the rental market in Cork was controlled by just two entities: a family of moneylenders, and an elderly couple who had a large office off the Quays with a whole large bookshelf dedicated to the paperwork. I recall a taxi driver in 1997 telling me he had 5 rentals, and the laziest, most incompetent colleague I had in my call centre days was so because his real earner was the 10 rental properties he held in 2022. (His "secret", as he said, was interest only loans
).The vast majority of landlords 70~86% (varies depends on year of the data) have one or two rentals. I'm going to call that small landlords.
You are not going to make vast profits on one or two rentals. Once you get into 10, 50, 100 properties ("Largescale investment property portfolios)" you are "large" landlord. It's an entirely different business due to scale. I'm not seeing any difference between a rich old couple and a REIT in how they approach their rentals. It's very unlikely either will leave 10, 50 or 100 tenants on below, market rent for years, in the way small LLs seem to do.
You are not going to make vast profits on one or two rentals. Once you get into 10, 50, 100 properties ("Largescale investment property portfolios)" you are "large" landlord. It's an entirely different business due to scale. I'm not seeing any difference between a rich old couple and a REIT in how they approach their rentals. It's very unlikely either will leave 10, 50 or 100 tenants on below, market rent for years, in the way small LLs seem to do.
Just read the oireachtas committee discussion on the big discrepancy between the CSO number of people renting from private landlords and the much lower number registered with the RTB.
The methods used to record Student and AHB's with RTB was mentioned as possible explainations for some small differences as well as properties being let to family which are not registered, but the clear implication was that tens of thousands of landlords had broken the law and not registered. What about the large numbers of refugees who are renting from private landlords on the €800 pm plan? Would that skew the figures as they are not required to register with RTB either.
I would have thought the vast majority of landlords are registered now but maybe not. The CSO are to carry out a matching exercise between rtb, cso, and lpt data to identify where the discrepancies are so it will discover if there really are thousands of dodgy landlords. The results from the CSO exercise will be interesting.
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It will be very interesting to see the outcome of that. Accommodation numbers in student accommodation, AHBs, Ukrainian refugees should be known by one or more Government departments, but I suspect the challenge will be in getting them talking to each other and reconciling the data when they're all gathering the data in different manners for different purposes.
Suspect it will be like the hundreds of thousands 'vacant properties'; lots of noise & no substance.
Guests (don't know their names) on RTE Late Debate just now calling for a three year rent freeze following today's RTB report showing that new tenancies are costing more than existing tenancies. One guest said the government should go ahead and implement a rent freeze and if landlords are not happy they can challenge it. Not a LL but it's never-ending, no wonder landlords are fed up.
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