Is it now time to introduce water rates?

[Woodsman]

If meters were installed in every home using mains water it would presumably dramatically reduce the amount used. The cost would be huge but it would generate employment and would be a one off expense.
The income would also be huge which could be then used to repair our leaking mains system and update sewage treatment plants. I am assuming the only reason water charges have never been introduced is due to political cowardice. People in rural areas who have to put in their own wells and sewage systems do so at a cost of at least 10k and suffer the annual cost of maintaining them. Why should urban dwellers have this for free?
Water charges would ensure homeowners used it responsibly and most importantly would shut off the supply when vacating houses, schools and factories over Christmas and ensured their pipes and attics were protected.

 

[zztop]

Service Charges were introduced in the early 80s by most councils mainly
for water & refuse costs.The right to levy charges was then abandoned
by........guess who.What goes around comes around.

 

[Caveat]

Hang on - is this not on the cards anyway? I could have sworn there have been strong indications that water metering will be introduced for the country in the near future. I already pay for my water.

 

[z107]

The income would also be huge which could be then used to repair our leaking mains system and update sewage treatment plants.

Any income will be given to the insolvent banks.

I'd rather dig a well. By hand.

 

[MANTO]

Water charges will be coming in but a decision has not been made as to when, also, if people were charged for water - would they have left their taps running all night long during the 'big freeze'?

 

[Caveat]

...if people were charged for water - would they have left their taps running all night long during the 'big freeze'?

As long as this was done sensibly I don't think it's a big issue. I did it. the tap only needs to be turned on enough to allow a tiny trickle. Overnight it wouldn't even fill half a bath.

 

[jhegarty]

Water charges will be coming in but a decision has not been made as to when, also, if people were charged for water - would they have left their taps running all night long during the 'big freeze'?

I don't think a 30 year event lasting two weeks is a good reason to bring in a charge.

 

[RMCF]

Lets be honest, it'll come in soon, as the Gov simply needs to raise more revenue badly over the next few years.

But I think it will be in the form of a fixed annual fee rather that 'pay as you use'.

Perhaps a nominal amount to begin with to ease us all in? Say €50 or €100 per household?

 

[z104]

I already pay for my water through my P.A.Y.E., P.R.S.I. Income Levi, V.A.T. on all purchases, V.R.T. on my car purchase, Car tax on top of that again. Dog licences, T.V. License.

Enough of the taxes.

No water tax. What next, An oxygen tax for the average amount of air we breath.

 

[haminka1]

If meters were installed in every home using mains water it would presumably dramatically reduce the amount used. The cost would be huge but it would generate employment and would be a one off expense.
The income would also be huge which could be then used to repair our leaking mains system and update sewage treatment plants. I am assuming the only reason water charges have never been introduced is due to political cowardice. People in rural areas who have to put in their own wells and sewage systems do so at a cost of at least 10k and suffer the annual cost of maintaining them. Why should urban dwellers have this for free?
Water charges would ensure homeowners used it responsibly and most importantly would shut off the supply when vacating houses, schools and factories over Christmas and ensured their pipes and attics were protected.

i don't think so - it's like making beduins on sahara to pay for the sun - what needs to be done is to invest money into repairs of water pipes and the money doesn't need to come from water meters ...
there was plenty of talk of almost 50% of drinking water disappearing every day into the ground because of the leaking pipes so let's stop blaming normal people for poor management of drinking water distribution ...

 

[Caveat]

Perhaps a nominal amount to begin with to ease us all in? Say €50 or €100 per household?

I know it's not the same thing but costs me €180 pa already - group water scheme. There are plans to meter this too in the future - which may even work out to our benefit as it happens.

 

[Teatime]

I don't think a 30 year event lasting two weeks is a good reason to bring in a charge.

I think this need has been there for years. There is a lot of waste within households when using water e.g. watch someone brush their teeth with the water running constantly for 5 mins

It costs a lot of money and energy to treat water for human consumption. Irish people have a mindset that we get so much rain that water consumption is not an issue. If we spent less money treating water and concentrated on fixing the leaks and improving/upgrading the treatment plants etc, we would all be better off.

 

[Latrade]

Where do you get this from? From what I hear about the privatised service in the Uk, it is a mess - expensive, poor service, and just as many leaks as in the old days.

Well apart from the obvious benefits that come regarding a large new employer in a region, the qualification and expertise of the companies in providing the latest equipment and set up to manage water.

It's also easier to regulate as there's less incentive when an entire batch of drinking water is contaminated due to LA incompetence to just turn around and say, "now, now, you'll have to do a bit better" because of the political ramifications of an LA's funding for managing water. Standards in the UK went up as well as regulation, it made people more accountable for problems than would ever be with the current system.

Without some Public Private Partneship how do you think we'll get the necessary work completed on the supply network?

You "hear" the UK is a mess so I guess I'll have to concede in the face of overwhelming evidence. Only England and Wales are privatised, Scotland and NI are still state owned. Unfortunately there is no smoking gun in any review as to which works best, they all compare favourably (more or less depending on region) with each other. So in that sense both systems appear to work to the same standard.

However, until privatisation, this wasn't the case. It's a leap to suggest that the privatised companies and the change in regulation forced the hands of the state owned, but one did follow the other. The remaining state owned companies lagged behind.

However, there are sources if you wish, OFWAT reports show the improvements for quality and supply in England and Wales since privatisation:



This shows prices have gone up, but if you look around the costs are in line with the rest of Europe. In fact the UK costs are less than Germany and only just more than France and Italy.

It shows the £70bn invested in the water network since privatisation.
It shows significant improvement in customer service.
It shows the regulator regulating (the UK's Environment Agency also show prosecutions where necessary).
It shows better water quality on all measures.
It shows better control of leaking.

So basically on every single measure it shows improvement since privatisation. I know this fails the "from what I hear" test, but I'm limited in terms of only being able to find statistical evidence rather than assumed evidence.

 

[VOR]

Lets be honest, it'll come in soon, as the Gov simply needs to raise more revenue badly over the next few years.

But I think it will be in the form of a fixed annual fee rather that 'pay as you use'.

Perhaps a nominal amount to begin with to ease us all in? Say €50 or €100 per household?

I think it has to be a "pay as you use" to work effectively. I can't see any other way it could be an environmental tax unless it is based on quantity used.
The Irish Times had an article about the use of water on Saturday. It said that the average household uses 150 litres per day per person. Seemed high to me but who am I to disagree with the Times.
According to the article, the commercial rate for 1000L is €1.72. So a family of 4 will use 600 litres per day. If the LA charges the same rate for households, then a family of 4 will pay €32 per month for water.
That would focus the mind rather quickly with charges approaching €400 a year.

Figures taken from the end of this article [broken link removed]

 

[shanegl]

Water charges will be coming in but a decision has not been made as to when, also, if people were charged for water - would they have left their taps running all night long during the 'big freeze'?

People leaving their taps on was not the issue (that's just the blatant lie peddled by Gormly). The issue was burst pipes from freezing.

 

[pinkyBear]

I have listened to alot of debates on this - in a way I dont mind paying for what I use. I have no real objection to paying for my bins for example. This is my waste - my responcibility.

However, in the debates those for the water charges main arguement was the lack of investment over the years has lead to alot of the problems. However there was investment in the public sector, the wages! When we had money, we put that money in to wages which was a short term and unustainable model...

P..

 

[bren1916]

A certain volume of water free of charge (based on per person in household) and any excess to be charged seems fair enough to me.

That would focus the mind of the consumer..

 

[Sunny]

I don't have a problem with water charges BUT I would have fears that once introduced, the Government and Local Authorities won't be able to help themselves increasing and increasing the charges every year to bring in extra revenue. It will just become another tax rather an actual water charge.

 

[truthseeker]

I don't have a problem with water charges BUT I would have fears that once introduced, the Government and Local Authorities won't be able to help themselves increasing and increasing the charges every year to bring in extra revenue. It will just become another tax rather an actual water charge.

+1.

Id also have to query the service Id receive for the money, i moved into an apartment 4 years ago and have not had mains water on numerous occasions, for up to 3 days at a time - due to various works, upgrades, fixes etc... this weekend was just the latest in a series of no mains water for me, plus for the first 2 years mains pressure was so low that it was practically unusable.
Id expect this to improve if I was paying, but who is to say it would?

 

[VOR]

+1.

Id also have to query the service Id receive for the money, i moved into an apartment 4 years ago and have not had mains water on numerous occasions, for up to 3 days at a time - due to various works, upgrades, fixes etc... this weekend was just the latest in a series of no mains water for me, plus for the first 2 years mains pressure was so low that it was practically unusable.
Id expect this to improve if I was paying, but who is to say it would?

+1 agree completely.
Don't forget that it needs to be drinkable also. Galway and Ennis have had boil notices for months in Galway's case and 2 years in the case of Ennis.

If the water is reliable and clean I have no issue with paying for it.