Paul Galvin incident.

[Betsy Og]

In fairness to the GAA I dont think they are reluctant to spend money - some of them are a bit too easy with it in fact. For instance:

* county teams costing over €100k to run p.a.
*every county wanting a 35k stadium even though the best "domestic" games might get 15k and inter-county games might only roll around every few years.

There's a common perception that because the players arent paid that they're must be a fat cat somewhere creaming it off. Now apart from paid employees (no great view that they're overpaid) and probably the odd bit of skimming going on, no-one is getting rich from the GAA, the money goes back into grounds across the country through grants.

That is one of the more defining and positive aspects of the GAA. If it went professional then you have:
*paid players (obviously)
*a transfer market (show me a professional sport without one)
*the strong and weak counties are even more defined by their relative financial wealth (there is probably some correlation to wealth and success already, even if only indirectly due to population trends).

So while I commend the efforts of the players I dont think we should go professional - if its too much commitment for particular individuals then fair enough. As regards modernising/professionalising certain aspects I'd be full in favour of:

* An advantage rule
* Video ref
* scanner type technology to tell if a point is scored (this has been talked about in the last year or 2)
* A big clock counting down to the end of the game (las works well in ladies football)
* any other progressive developments along these lines.

 

[Green]

Well I would think that because they are so keen on keeping it an amateur sport, this would be seen as a step towards professionalism. I think rather than introduce new technology they should address the selection process for umpires, maybe use referees like in these positions like in soccer (linesmen).

The GAA is already a professional sport in some respects. Look at the time and effort being put in by county gaa players...

 

[DavyJones]

I wouldn't be a big fan of the GAA, although I like watching some games. I think more should be given to the players considering the time and effort they put in.

A few weeks back I was doing my usual sunday morning mountain run (its a lot more fun than it sounds). Its a 5 mile ring of up and down track, anyhow when I was half way around i met a county hurler on his own, training. Not only does this guy train for his club and county he trains alone on his only day off, unless he has a match ofcourse. these lads are professionals in all but wages. Shame on the fat cats.

PS I had to pay €12 to see a inter county game a few weeks ago.

 

[Betsy Og]

PS I had to pay €12 to see a inter county game a few weeks ago.

Do you not think that was good value? Rugby & soccer tickets are well more expensive that GAA tickets, so I dont think you're getting ripped off at that.

 

[DavyJones]

Do you not think that was good value? Rugby & soccer tickets are well more expensive that GAA tickets, so I dont think you're getting ripped off at that.

I don't think I was ripped off at all, but I think the 30 lads I was watching play are.
I have seen Munster play more than once and ticket prices are not that much more expensive, and normally the faclities at rugby grounds are far better than GAA grounds and ofcourse rugby players, even at club level get financial reward for their hard work.

 

[csirl]

GAA needs to sort out its disciplinary issues on a number of fronts. They are detracting from the games and if they continue will lead to people turning away from the sport.

Improvements need to be on the following fronts:

Rules/Procedures:
Should be clear and concise. Disciplinary hearings should take place in good time and should be open and transparent. None of this technicalities stuff or tactics for delaying suspensions until after an important game.

Referees:
Intercounty GAA games have 7 match officials - 1x Referee, 2x Linesman, 4 x Umpire. This is more than enough to keep tabs on every part of the field. The referees have too much to do and too much area to cover. The way games are officiated should be changed so that the workload is spread more evenly among all 7 officials with all allowed to call fouls. The referee should just act as the "captain" of the officiating team.

Coaches:
In most sports you have a coaches association which enforces coaching ethics. It appears that many GAA coaches do not accept fair punishments dished out to errant players and allow their teams to intimidate referees and opponents. Coaches who do not play within the spirit of the game should be disciplined by a coaching organisation and have their coaching licenses withdrawn.

 

[MrMan]

The GAA is already a professional sport in some respects. Look at the time and effort being put in by county gaa players...

There is great time and effort but that doesn't equate to professionalism. Guys at plenty of diffenrent levels train hard and are maybe not very good, but simply applying time and effort doesn't make one a professional.

I wouldn't be a big fan of the GAA, although I like watching some games. I think more should be given to the players considering the time and effort they put in.

Its a choice though and always has been.

these lads are professionals in all but wages. Shame on the fat cats.

No they are committed and they train and play hard. A lot of games are specacles simply for the level of spirit on show and never say die etc and the GAA is branded on the whole 'blood on your shirt, die for your county' style rhetoric, i don't think it would be as easy market if Sean Óg and the like were seen to only be in it for the money.

 

[DavyJones]

No they are committed and they train and play hard. A lot of games are specacles simply for the level of spirit on show and never say die etc and the GAA is branded on the whole 'blood on your shirt, die for your county' style rhetoric, i don't think it would be as easy market if Sean Óg and the like were seen to only be in it for the money.

Most team sports are like that, and they get paid or atleast good expenses. I don't see your point.

 

[Betsy Og]

Most team sports are like that, and they get paid or atleast good expenses. I don't see your point.

Probably more so rugby than soccer but I see your point. However, professional would lead to a dilution of the GAA's grassroots appeal for a few reasons:

1. Since the guys arent paid they do normal jobs, arent prima donnas (we wont mention Donal Og ), and the public meet them in the normal course of work/life then they are a lot easier to believe in, like, support etc. Your average teen might even harbour a crazy notion that they could be out there with them if their luck turned. They play alongside them/against them in club games. Contrast this to the parallel universe that soccer players in England inhabit.
2. To labour my earlier point, professionalism would inevitably give rise to a transfer market and a direct hit on the GAA's appeal. There is something curious about kids wanting to "die" for (i.e. rabid fans) of a team from a suburb of a UK city where they've never been nor will be (for a good few years anyway). So there's a purity to the GAA following, its a sense of belonging, you dont decide to be a fan, you've no choice, its in you (I realise this isnt across the board, particularly in urban areas but its the reality in much of the country). Not that theres anything wrong with following a UK team, just that its a bit contrived - (bit like how english fans slag Man Utd fans from other parts of England).
3. The Irish experience of professional team sport isnt particularly good. League of Ireland clubs generally scraping by, rugby has 3 viable provinces and a club scene that, by the accounts of people involved, has suffered greatly due to professionalism.
4. If it aint broke dont fix it. Theres an assumption that all this training has made the GAA better. Games are a bit quicker but are they more skilful or enjoyable to play or watch? Rather than expecting superhuman training standards and unreasonable demands on players I think there should be further limits on collective training (like the recently introduced closed season). What was wrong with the bellies of Seanie O'Leary or Joe McNally rattling in the goals? Better that than some young fella worn to a thread with training and no social life and his livelihood curtailed in the pursuit of "puke football".

 

[DavyJones]

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is the fact that GAA are the biggest sporting body in the state, they must turnover millions (tens of millions if you include the hire of croke park for other sports and concerts) of euro a year. I don't really care if the sport goes semi- pro or pro but atleast give the players good expenses. Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers.

 

[MOB]

"Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."

This argument is almost meaningless in the context of the GAA. There is no owner getting wealthy.

'Share some of the wealth' in the context of GAA might just as easily be re-phrased as 'spend the money differently'

As things stand, the money all gets spent on the sport. If you propose paying players, then you are talking about either getting in more money or cutting back on some other area which currently gets that money. Those who support pay for play should be clear about where they see the money coming from.

 

[DavyJones]

"Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."

This argument is almost meaningless in the context of the GAA. There is no owner getting wealthy.

'Share some of the wealth' in the context of GAA might just as easily be re-phrased as 'spend the money differently'

As things stand, the money all gets spent on the sport. If you propose paying players, then you are talking about either getting in more money or cutting back on some other area which currently gets that money. Those who support pay for play should be clear about where they see the money coming from.

I don't propose to pay players, If the GAA turnover €30 million a year, they can surely give a little (better expenses, mileage etc)to the county players. I would not be so innocent to think people aren't getting rich off the GAA. Where there is that kind of money there is corruption and greed, of that you can be sure.

 

[Ash 22]

Going back to last nights match. It was very hard luck for Clare. Saying that they had a few more minutes play left and had a chance to equalise. The match is on www.tg4.tv under sport cartlann for anybody that missed the action. Go to 1.34 and you'll see the controversial puck out.

 

[The_Banker]

"Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."

This argument is almost meaningless in the context of the GAA. There is no owner getting wealthy.

I beg to differ. There are some very well paid administrators in full time employment getting a very handsome salary. Since the early 70s there is a County Secretary (in Cork) in full time employment running matters who has never been re-elected.

 

[The_Banker]

"Share some of the wealth with the foot soldiers."

'Share some of the wealth' in the context of GAA might just as easily be re-phrased as 'spend the money differently'

Why did the GAA introduce the back door? Was it to give counties a second bite of the cherry or was it to bring in more revenue? I suspect the later.
With more games comes more pressure on players. The GAA introduced commercialism with major sponsorship of league and championship, jersey sponsorship etc. Yet when a player had sponsorship on his hurl all hell broke loose.

In Munster there are 4 major stadiums. The Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, Pairc Ui Squeeze in Cork, Semple Stadium in Thurles and Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney. Not to mention the ground in Ennis or Pairc Ui Rinn in Cork. Instead of having so many stadia (which are empty most of the year even at the height of Championship) why not have one major all seated stadium for Munster and then "spend the money differently" by really compensating the players who have so many extra games due to back doors introduced by the GAA to boost revenue.

 

[csirl]

these lads are professionals in all but wages. Shame on the fat cats.

I disagree with this point. Intercounty GAA players are committed amateurs on a par with the committed amateurs who play at the top level in most sports in Ireland.

Professional sport is a totally different ball game (excuse the pun) to amateur sport. Participants behave in a very different way when their livelihood depends on their performance. Skill levels are always higher - a committed amateur with a day job can never dedicate as much time to training as a full time professional. There is also an element of professional pride in professional sport. A professional athlete has to give it 100% everytime they perform. Its not good enough to put in a good effort and lose - as is acceptable at amateur level.

If GAA were to turn full time professional, there is no doubt that the skill level would rise dramatically. I disagree with those posters who say that rugby is suffering because of professionalism. Its clear to see that the top level of rugby in Ireland has improved immensely in recent years - is much better to watch. Rugby also seems to be growing and spreading into areas that never played the sport (I've no connections with rugby and never played the sport so these are not the opinions of a biased insider).

I disagree that the GAA is run as a professional organisation - even though the administrators at the top level in the GAA are full time and well paid, they still have a very amateur approach (in terms of sports administration). The GAA could do with a total overhaul of its management and a bit more professionalism at this level. They will suffer in the future if they dont - recent reports suggest that the future for GAA is not as rosey as for other sports and that the Government is getting poor value for money from the grants going into GAA.

In spite of the top level of soccer in Ireland being professional, the FAI also suffer from an amateur approach among their administrators. This could be because most of them come from the amateur soccer ranks rather than being experienced professional sports administrators.

One final point to remember is that professional soccer players are not the best examples of professional athletes. I think it is because they sign for professional clubs as 14/15 year olds which is too young to have any appreciation for how you get to professional level. In the vast majority of professioanl sports, the athletes do not turn professional until they are adults and often have to work their way up through the amateur levels to get to professional level.

 

[MrMan]

Most team sports are like that, and they get paid or atleast good expenses. I don't see your point.

your point was that they train even beyond what is required by professionals, but I think simply being super fit shouldn't mean that they should be payed, tbh i would prefer a little less concentration on fitness and more on skill. I would agree with putting a cap on the amount of training that can be put in. My point is even junior soccer teams have been known to ban drink for the season and train 3 nights a week, I've been with basketball teams that required two nights training with the team and you were expected to follow up with 1-2 nights weights and practice on your own and matches were all generally a 3 hour round trip at weekends.

 

[Mpsox]

1. Since the guys arent paid they do normal jobs, arent prima donnas (we wont mention Donal Og ),

Re Donal Og, I come from down near his neck of the woods, albeit not from his village of Cloyne but from one of his neighbouring clubs.
In addition to playing for both club and county, he is also involved as a selector with club sides and I've seen him on the sideline at many an underage match. I know for a fact(as he did it for my local club) that he turned up to present medals and would not take a payment for it, unlike many other intercounty players. He recently gave up some of his weekend to travel up to Fermanagh or Louth(can't remember which one it was) to do coaching sessions with their county teams

I don't agree with everything the GPA has done, and as a Corkman I would not agree with everything the county team has done over the last few years either. However Donal Og, from what I've seen of him, strikes me as a decent guy and a perfectionist.

 

[The_Banker]

Since the guys arent paid they do normal jobs, arent prima donnas (we wont mention Donal Og ),

Just to balance your slur against Donal Og there was a very good article in The Sunday Times on July 15th regarding Donal Og. Read it and see how little of a prima donna he is...

SOURCE: THE SUNDAY TIMES

TOM HUMPHRIES LOCKER ROOM:
The Cork goalkeeper is a hate figure for some traditionalists, which is strange when you look at his unselfish service to the game and its grassroots, writes Tom Humphries .
FROM THE scenes created by the quietly relieved press of Cork people who moseyed onto the field at Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Saturday night when the final whistle shrilled one little tableau stood out. The kids hit Donal Óg Cusack's goal first when they made it on to the field. He was gathering up his supply of hurleys and when he stood to go to the dressingrooms Donal Óg's way was impeded by a sea of young, beseeching fans.
They clamoured for his hurleys, his signature and his jersey, and almost unconsciously he whipped off his famous hooped red-and-white geansaí and offered it to the first kid who had asked for it.
The young fella streaked off in a happy sprint of pure triumph and joy. He was followed by a brand-new retinue of admirers suddenly pleased to be associated with the fella who got Donal Óg's jersey. Meanwhile, Donal Óg stood and signed anything with a surface that would take a signature.
County boards are parsimonious in the matter of jerseys (the parsimony of Cork's county board has occasionally been highlighted by Donal Óg among others) but rather than chastise a player who hands a jersey over to a young kid it would be preferable almost if stars like Donal Óg were given a supply of them to give out. The 60 or 70 euro it might cost to replace Donal Óg's shirt from Saturday would buy just a tiny fragment of the joy and goodwill for the games the gesture provided.
What was interesting was that when you look at the ranks of modern players, Donal Óg Cusack is one of the most pilloried and derided despite the grudging nods to his excellence.
For instance, from our seat in the stands on Saturday one critic of Donal Óg's had been piercingly shrill in his denunciations of the Cork goalie as a "muppet" and a "clown".
Of all the names Donal Óg must have been called, muppet probably wouldn't make the top 100 most wounding, but it was the venom and persistence of the critiques which stood out. The name-calling came from just one corner of a broad coalition of people there to support Cork but also to get on Cusack's case.
The howls of derision abated just once when Ross O'Carroll rasped a snapshot across the Cork goal and Donal Óg, with just the right hand on the hurl, stretched full-length to stop as firmly and as confidently as a policemen raising his hand to halt the flow of traffic. As sweet a save as we are likely to see all season. Only a galoot of the most twisted kind would have denied the save the applause it merited.
Then it was back to the derision. Hard to believe this was for a goalkeeper on his way to yet another clean sheet. Again, there is little here that would surprise Donal Óg. Whether you agree with his profile in matters from the GPA to the strikes which have paralysed Cork GAA in recent years he is exceptional in his ability to go against the instincts of the modern GAA player and put his head above the parapet and take the brickbats and abuse for standing up for something he believes in.
That is no small thing and though it has made Donal Óg the most demonised player among followers in the modern game it should, in fact, make him the most respected.
We are in an era (partly created by Donal Óg himself) when players are more visible than ever and yet less well known. I pass Alan Brogan's face on billboards 100 times a day, but have no real impression of what sort of fella he is beyond the impression he gives with his play. (Speaking of county boards and jerseys, Alan's father, Bernard, finished his Dublin career by being taken to hospital having been creeled in a game against Kildare. He gave his jersey to a nurse who looked after him. He never heard from the county board about his status vis-à-vis Dublin teams, but the missing jersey was an issue for a long time.)
The same phenomenon of visible anonymity is true to a greater or lesser extent of many modern players who have discovered commercial endorsements are a satisfactory outlet for limited self-expression and a reasonable way of conveying a sense of yourself to the public. And the structure of the modern championship competitions helps of course - the back door means never having to say goodbye after one game. Players (there are many of course entitled to wear the traditional béal bocht) have moved into an era where the disconnect between themselves and the places they come from isn't yet dangerous, but has become a source of concern.
The money available for selling your face to sell products gets bigger all the time, but the bits and pieces like scholarships, sponsored cars, free gear, wads of cash to be a talking head at sponsors' press conferences, and the Government stipend mean we move ever closer to the era when players will make a living entirely from having a high GAA profile.
Let's hope when that happens even though we will stone Donal Óg for helping to bring it about the players in question remember the values Cusack brings to his life off the park.
Those who saw him in Parnell Park last summer when Cork beat Dublin a little more convincingly than on Saturday will recall he was one of a clutch of Cork players who stayed on the field for more than an hour signing his name for youngsters. His jersey had long since been given away that day too.
He is, like many of the Cork players demonised during the strike days, exemplary in his commitment to working with young teams. If all clubs saw as much of their county players as Cloyne sees of Donal Óg there would be less talk of this disconnect.
What is odd about this is that players and ex-players like Donal Óg and Dessie Farrell stand indicted as bogeymen in the business of bringing about this gulf between players and ordinary members and yet the GAA has done more than enough tampering with its complexion to have made those changes inevitable anyway.
The arrival of sponsors names on county jerseys, the proliferation of sponsorships and TV coverage and, finally, the invention of the back-door system have been as responsible as anything the GPA or striking Cork players have done to bring about this commercial buoyancy for amateur players.
In the days of the old-style championship one bad day meant a calamitous exit for an entire year. Modern teams can disappear out the back door for a refresher in the qualifiers and then - ta-dah! - step right back on to the big stage a few weeks later arguing the qualifiers suited just fine, allowing them get matches under their belts while their conquerors twiddled thumbs.
Until they are beaten, all teams deem the winning of provincial championships to be the shortest route to Croke Park and the one they are determined to take.
Donal Óg is a strange hate figure for traditionalists. There are those of us who might not agree with every stance he takes, but if the modern era had more players as generous with their time and their instincts and as assiduous with their preparations we would all be less scared about the future.
A kid got a free jersey on Saturday in Páirc Uí Chaoimh and a couple of hundred got autographs. A small, good thing. Our friend in the stands and a coalition of sympathisers went off muttering about Cusack as if he were to blame for Cork's lack of lustre.

We live in an era for Gaelic Games where players have a sense of entitlement more finely honed than in any previous generation. Entitlement comes after duty, however. You can't take out more than you have put in.
We watched Donal Óg on Saturday and listened to the abuse he took and wondered if any of his detractors put so much into the game they feel entitled to belittle a model athlete. Or was it that Cusack's impeccable bearing and unimpeachable commitment make him a frustrating hate figure, a Spartacus in stockades? The kid with the jersey must wonder what all the fuss is about.
© 2008 The Irish Times

 

[Betsy Og]

Just to balance your slur against Donal Og


Slur is taking it a bit far, I would have said gentle ribbing. He'd be grand if he didnt take himself so seriously, very dour and self-important in TV interviews I've seen him in. I'm not a big fan of the GPA agenda either. And if he could stick to the regulation sliothars he'd take a lot of focus off himself. He wouldnt be the first "hate figure" goalie ever, Fitzy had many admirers, plenty from Waterford I'd imagine, but it shows that these dislikes dont run that deep.