What to pay for carpentry work

[Dreamhouse]

Hi S.L.F.,

You right there, small stuff, snags and jobs for mad fussy and greedy customers go on daily rate. I noticed, if you ask for the day, they are not so fussy.

If you go on price, they will do everything, to find something for exuse not to pay. And you know, you can find something even at the brand new car in the showhouse, if you looking hard enough, especialy with the magnifying glass...

And the daily charge is def. in the cases, when you always are asked "while you there, would you mind to have a look at...."

 

[S.L.F]

And the daily charge is def. in the cases, when you always are asked "while you there, would you mind to have a look at...."

Had one of them recently, asked me to price 2 wardrobes to be made the same as 2 other ones. Gave her a price for that.

Then afterwards on the same day she asked me to look at something else.
"Can you do this?", she asked me, "Yes", I said.
When I finished the wardrobes she told me she was not paying me till I finished all the work.
Asked her what she meant she included the other work as part of what I agreed.
I ended up having to explain to her that I can run up and down her garden naked screaming like a banshee the better question would be will I.

I've decided in future to write down what I've agreed to do with customers because I was one grumpy bear when I got home from that womans house.

 

[Dreamhouse]

To S.L.F.
Times have changed, S.L.F., you'll get more and more like that nice lady, mostly southside of Dub.
And some of customers are thinking, that because of the slowdown at the construction sector, tradesman vans started to drive on pure water, their kids learned to eat grass and fairys started to pay their morgages.

You could ask that lady, what would hapen when on friday she would be tould she would get her wages for last week after she will do the weekend for free?

 

[Simeon]

Doing up an old house in Kerry and the chippy charges E250 for a nine hour day. He's a good worker and I'm happy to pay him that. Normally I'd ask for a price but the nature of the job rules that out.

 

[ubiquitous]

I'm sorry but that is a shocking price to ask for a days work...thats why the economy is in the state its in...people thinking that this is acceptable to pay someone for a days work, no matter if they have 20 years experience and especially if the work is being done by polish or other foreign nationationals, you know that they are more than likely being paid the min wage if they are lucky for the work, so people shouldn't be paying these prices. If you were to build a similar house in europe it would cost a fraction of the cost due to labour costs!!!!

I think your idea of carpentry rates are hopelessly unrealistic. Ten years ago, the carpenter whom we used to build our house was charging €300 per day, plus VAT. If you find a competent and reputable carpenter who is willing to work for the minimum wage of €10+- per hour, then good luck to you, but in my opinion that is an exploitation wage for a skilled worker.

 

[MrMan]

I can understand the trades lads here trying to defend such high costs and even 'poor-mouthing' a bit, but i've long since wondered why every profession from EA to banks to FF are 'blamed' for the property boom when in fact the massive increases in labour costs year on year played no small part. i have friends (who until recently) were getting €1200 gross per week (chippies). As regards wet days I know builders that have had to pay €250 per day for even without getting a return for work. With regard to paying for talent and skill there are a lot of decent lads working but there is more than enough poor workmanship on display across the country to question the whole 'you get what you pay for'. tools are expensive and they make the work a hell of alot easier too. There is still hard work and bad conditions but the expensive tools chosen are there to make there load easier and shouldn't be a consideration when costing work.

 

[johnnyg]

what about employed people who are skilled and spent 5-6 years in college, they only start out on 10-15 euro's an hour, thay don't get compensated for millage costs, they're not able to claim back money for the clothes they have to ware, a good siut/tie/shoes costs 400-500 euros for a modest one, you would need 5-8 of these a year and the list goes on so i think there is an element of poor mouthing going. The plasterer down from me is driving a 08 landcrusier, another buddie (electrician) is driving 08 audi coupe, so i think its there life style they are trying to maintain..

 

[S.L.F]

With regard to paying for talent and skill there are a lot of decent lads working but there is more than enough poor workmanship on display across the country to question the whole 'you get what you pay for'.

This is why all good tradesmen and craftsmen will tell you to ask for references. Speaking for myself I always ask my previous customers if its ok to tell people about the job I've done for them.

tools are expensive and they make the work a hell of alot easier too. There is still hard work and bad conditions but the expensive tools chosen are there to make there load easier and shouldn't be a consideration when costing work.

Your argument is flawed in that a fool with a good tool is still just a fool.
Good tools don't make a good tradesman.
The main reason we buy expensive tools is because they last longer.

what about employed people who are skilled and spent 5-6 years in college, they only start out on 10-15 euro's an hour, thay don't get compensated for millage costs, they're not able to claim back money for the clothes they have to ware, a good siut/tie/shoes costs 400-500 euros for a modest one, you would need 5-8 of these a year and the list goes on.

What about them?
This thread is about what to pay for carpentry not what some 'suit' gets or doesn't get for being a desk jockey or what ever.
If you're jealous take up a trade and live in the real world.
I have often worked till 2 in the morning getting things done I don't know any 'suits' who do that!

The plasterer down from me is driving a 08 landcrusier, another buddie (electrician) is driving 08 audi coupe, so i think its there life style they are trying to maintain..

Fair play to them it shows they have worked hard.

I imagine they will have to keep on working hard to pay off the loans.

 

[johnnyg]

working hard, at 300 a day no wonder they can afford them...very few carpenters work till 2 am...if any or a very odd case...i'm building at the moment and to get people after hours is a no full stop....a pity i didn't meet you for a quote, i'd be finished months ago!!!!

I don't wear a suit for my work, but most of my friends do and can barely make ends meat, if they applied you theory based on experience and good workmanship, and were rewarded on merit they'd be millionaires..

I would love to know what area you work in, i have a picture of you working on homes that are worth millions and 300/day is only pittance to the owners and maybe you get work based on you looks rather than you ability with your tools..LOL

 

[MandaC]

I am not a millionaire (far from it) and I would have no problem paying any self employed tradesman €250/€300 for a full days work, once the standard was good.

 

[S.L.F]

I'm competing from people out of college.

I can just see the advert for your job.

No experience required

but seriously anybody I know who has left college has to be trained into the real world.

I know people who have studied English or the Classics who walk into good paying jobs, so going to college cuts no ice with me.

I don't wear a suit for my work, but most of my friends do and can barely make ends meat, if they applied you theory based on experience and good workmanship, and were rewarded on merit they'd be millionaires..

I don't know any 'suit' who works with his hands so workmanship doesn't apply to 'suits'.

I would love to know what area you work in, i have a picture of you working on homes that are worth millions and 300/day is only pittance to the owners and maybe you get work based on you looks rather than you ability with your tools..LOL

Funny I have a picture of you as a spotty faced kid who has just left school or a little old granny sitting at home with nothing better to do than troll on AAM.

Your total ignorance regarding trades astounds me, who on earth would employ someone on the basis of their looks, is that the way you employ the lads on your site, no wonder you are months on the site.

I am not a millionaire (far from it) and I would have no problem paying any self employed tradesman €250/€300 for a full days work, once the standard was good.

As I have said before to everybody get references for anybody you plan to get and check them.

Always get a landline as a contact No and an address.
Chancers run a mile when you ask for those.

 

[DavyJones]

working hard, at 300 a day no wonder they can afford them...very few carpenters work till 2 am...if any or a very odd case...i'm building at the moment and to get people after hours is a no full stop....a pity i didn't meet you for a quote, i'd be finished months ago!!!!

I don't wear a suit for my work, but most of my friends do and can barely make ends meat, if they applied you theory based on experience and good workmanship, and were rewarded on merit they'd be millionaires..

I would love to know what area you work in, i have a picture of you working on homes that are worth millions and 300/day is only pittance to the owners and maybe you get work based on you looks rather than you ability with your tools..LOL

I really think you are missing something here. You are an employee, working for an employer. you get sick/holiday pay and a certain amount of protection, e.g union's, labour law etc.

S.L.F to use as an example is self employed/employer, Has to pay a tax bill, PRSI and business overheads. Most self employed people do their own VAT returns, price jobs, secure more work, advertise etc. The person doesn't rely on the "boss" to make sure the contracts keep coming. If you were ever self employed you would know there is always work to be done.

If your not happy with your work place, leave and set up your own business, then you'll know the craic.

 

[S.L.F]

Davey some people will never get it until they do it for themselves.

Until then its like trying to teach algebra to a chicken.

 

[MrMan]

This is why all good tradesmen and craftsmen will tell you to ask for references. Speaking for myself I always ask my previous customers if its ok to tell people about the job I've done for them.

I'd say that your in the minority of those who have never done bad work but there have been so many jumping into the trades to jump on the gravy train you must accept that quite a lot of those are not worth the money they charge.

Your argument is flawed in that a fool with a good tool is still just a fool.
Good tools don't make a good tradesman.
The main reason we buy expensive tools is because they last longer.

How is that a flawed argument? You buy expensive tools so they last longer, like someone else said I buy plenty of suits per annum but i don't take it into consideration when pricing work. Something else was also said about the fact that you go to clients homes, well that saves you office costs etc.

What about them?
This thread is about what to pay for carpentry not what some 'suit' gets or doesn't get for being a desk jockey or what ever.
If you're jealous take up a trade and live in the real world.
I have often worked till 2 in the morning getting things done I don't know any 'suits' who do that!

I think you need to enter the real world if you think that 'suits' are exempt from hard work or long hours.

Fair play to them it shows they have worked hard.

I imagine they will have to keep on working hard to pay off the loans.

I think the problem is they haven't quite worked that hard for such rich sums. There are those that have put in the hours and made alot of money and fair play but then you have guys like my friend who could turn up monday to friday finish at half 4 complain to unions over the slightest thing and walk away with €1200 gross per week.

I don't know any 'suit' who works with his hands so workmanship doesn't apply to 'suits'.

Designers, architects etc

 

[S.L.F]

I'd say that your in the minority of those who have never done bad work but there have been so many jumping into the trades to jump on the gravy train you must accept that quite a lot of those are not worth the money they charge.

Thank you MrMan for that.

I know there are loads of young guys coming up but it takes time for people to learn the trades, 10 years ago the skill level was higher.
I won't dispute that there are people who are earning more than they should but this does not just apply to the trades.

How is that a flawed argument? You buy expensive tools so they last longer, like someone else said I buy plenty of suits per annum but i don't take it into consideration when pricing work. Something else was also said about the fact that you go to clients homes, well that saves you office costs etc.

I really wish you would think before you post I don't work in an office.

Also the cost of tools was just one of the things that we spend money on.
Since you mention suits I also have to buy work wear regularly.

I think you need to enter the real world if you think that 'suits' are exempt from hard work or long hours.

I never said they don't work hard or work long hours.

I think EA's have had a great streak of fortune over the last 10 years, I don't believe they have worked that hard for their riches.

I think the problem is they haven't quite worked that hard for such rich sums. There are those that have put in the hours and made alot of money and fair play but then you have guys like my friend who could turn up monday to friday finish at half 4 complain to unions over the slightest thing and walk away with €1200 gross per week.

Are you talking about all tradesmen or just your friend,

Designers, architects etc

Fair enough, I take what I said back.
There is skill and workmanship that goes into drawings and design
but they are not tradesmen

 

[MrMan]

I won't dispute that there are people who are earning more than they should but this does not just apply to the trades.

We agree on that then, I think the levels of pay going out to 'average' tradesmen have at times been far too high, if you have a 'master craftsman' or the like then they would definitely be worth the pay.

I really wish you would think before you post I don't work in an office.

Also the cost of tools was just one of the things that we spend money on.
Since you mention suits I also have to buy work wear regularly.

I just had a quick think there so I think I'm ready to continue posting now. I was just making comparables, sure tradesmen have a multitude of equipment that they need for work and it costs money, but good suits, laptops and other equipment are often needed for other occupations that can mount up to quite an expense on an annual basis.

I think EA's have had a great streak of fortune over the last 10 years, I don't believe they have worked that hard for their riches.

Agreed, and the top men made a fortune, but the employees never hit those heights, whereas the trades made a sinificant leap in wages across the board.

Are you talking about all tradesmen or just your friend,

I can hardly talk for all tradesmen as you can't, but he worked for a large company and would of been one of many on that wage.

 

[shnaek]

There is nothing worse then to have a job price agreed when the punter decides to add bits onto the job. Which I have seen happen many times.

This happens in every line of work though. I work in IT and clients are forever adding on things they want done. If they can be done handy, then we don't charge. If they are time consuming, then we charge extra. I'm sure people in any trade use the same system. The client rarely knows what they want before you are half way through the job!

And surely the market decides what price to pay for a job? If skills are in scarce supply and high demand, then a premium will be paid. Supply and demand determines wages in all but the protected sectors of the economy.

 

[S.L.F]

We agree on that then, I think the levels of pay going out to 'average' tradesmen have at times been far too high, if you have a 'master craftsman' or the like then they would definitely be worth the pay.

How do you know who is a master craftsman and who is an average tradesman?

I just had a quick think there so I think I'm ready to continue posting now.

I was just making comparables, sure tradesmen have a multitude of equipment that they need for work and it costs money, but good suits, laptops and other equipment are often needed for other occupations that can mount up to quite an expense on an annual basis.

I don't doubt that for 1 second

Agreed, and the top men made a fortune, but the employees never hit those heights, whereas the trades made a sinificant leap in wages across the board.

This applies to many different employees not just trades.

I can hardly talk for all tradesmen as you can't, but he worked for a large company and would of been one of many on that wage.

We don't know what he actually did for a living so we can't compare it to anything.

 

[S.L.F]

And surely the market decides what price to pay for a job? If skills are in scarce supply and high demand, then a premium will be paid. Supply and demand determines wages in all but the protected sectors of the economy.

The only market I know is where I'm standing in someones kitchen and talking about what needs doing and telling them what its going to cost.

 

[shnaek]

The only market I know is where I'm standing in someones kitchen and talking about what needs doing and telling them what its going to cost.

Exactly. And they can tell you yes or no. Three cheers for the free market!