What to pay for carpentry work

Complainer said:
Would the average tradesman build the risk of paying interest and penalties to Revenue when they get round to catching up with them into their cost-benefit analysis?
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I think the way it works is they only get cash sometimes so they do pay tax just not enough.
I've heard stories of guys operating their lives around cash.
Very foolhardy IMO.

eileen alana said:
All very well, apart from the legal and moral obligations, what if they have a wife as an adult dependent and some kids to support, unemployment benefit could easily amount to approx 350e. In addition tax dodgers may lose out on the contributory state pension as well as illness, dental, disability benefits etc etc. They also fail to gain the considerable tax relief available from contributing to private pensions
In addition, welfare staff and no doubt revenue will want to know what these people were doing all these x number of years when they weren't registered as unemployed.
They will instead have to go on strict means tested benefits in which case the gains made from their ill gotton ways will come back to bite them where it hurts.
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As a tax payer I don't like the way they work, it doesn't make any sense to me why someone would try to defraud the country of taxes.
We all know how well spent our taxes are.:(
When I price jobs I include taxes I have to pay, they don't, so end up having cheaper quotes than me.
This of course annoys me.
The other thing that annoys me on AAM is people talking about getting tradesmen to do jobs for cash.
I pay taxes they should too.
 
Something has been bothering me about this thread and prices for men working on site for €520 per week.

Those men are not self employed and are working for someone else who makes more on top of what they make so in essence their earn is about €35 or more.

So if someone like me, self empolyed, was to go to a house to do a job I should charge €35 per hour
If I charged by the day I'd expect almost €300 or more for my days work, this is not including vat of 13.5% which would bring a days work to €318
 
S.L.F said:
So if someone like me, self empolyed, was to go to a house to do a job I should charge €35 per hour
If I charged by the day I'd expect almost €300 or more for my days work, this is not including vat of 13.5% which would bring a days work to €318
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I'm sorry but that is a shocking price to ask for a days work...thats why the economy is in the state its in...people thinking that this is acceptable to pay someone for a days work, no matter if they have 20 years experience and especially if the work is being done by polish or other foreign nationationals, you know that they are more than likely being paid the min wage if they are lucky for the work, so people shouldn't be paying these prices. If you were to build a similar house in europe it would cost a fraction of the cost due to labour costs!!!!
 
johnnyg said:
I'm sorry but that is a shocking price to ask for a days work...thats why the economy is in the state its in...people thinking that this is acceptable to pay someone for a days work, no matter if they have 20 years experience and especially if the work is being done by polish or other foreign nationationals, you know that they are more than likely being paid the min wage if they are lucky for the work, so people shouldn't be paying these prices. If you were to build a similar house in europe it would cost a fraction of the cost due to labour costs!!!!
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Johnnyg -Well said, I think the days of these over inflated prices are well and truely over.
 
johnnyg said:
I'm sorry but that is a shocking price to ask for a days work...thats why the economy is in the state its in...people thinking that this is acceptable to pay someone for a days work, no matter if they have 20 years experience and especially if the work is being done by polish or other foreign nationationals, you know that they are more than likely being paid the min wage if they are lucky for the work, so people shouldn't be paying these prices. If you were to build a similar house in europe it would cost a fraction of the cost due to labour costs!!!!
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Hi johnnyg,

this is not eastern Europe its Ireland.

If you picked a bloke off the street and asked him to do my job he'd spend a week just looking at it trying to figure out what to do and then make a hash of it and that goes for a lot of carpenters too.

You are not paying for time on the job you are paying for experience and talent that enables someone like me to be able to do the job correctly and properly.

Plus I spend thousands on tools every year.

I don't get call backs to redo any of my jobs but I get call backs to do more work.
 
What people tend to forget is that tradespeople call to your door, If I asked anybody on AAM to come to my house for a day and carry out what they do how much do you think I would be charged.
A percentage of the daily cost includes, motor insurance, motor tax, motor fuel, public/employers insurance. income tax, PRSI contribution.
These things cost money and the customer pays for it.

As S.L.F says, it is hard to compete with someone who doesn't pay tax or insurance, as the old saying goes, you get what you paid for.
 
DavyJones said:
What people tend to forget is that tradespeople call to your door, If I asked anybody on AAM to come to my house for a day and carry out what they do how much do you think I would be charged.
A percentage of the daily cost includes, motor insurance, motor tax, motor fuel, public/employers insurance. income tax, PRSI contribution.
These things cost money and the customer pays for it.

As S.L.F says, it is hard to compete with someone who doesn't pay tax or insurance, as the old saying goes, you get what you paid for.
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Not forgetting rent of a premises, van costs (wear and tear repairs), stationary, phones, advertising, safety gear, hire of equipment, accountants, solicitors, bad debts and there are other things, they were just off the top of my head.
 
S.L.F said:
Not forgetting rent of a premises, van costs (wear and tear repairs), stationary, phones, advertising, safety gear, hire of equipment, accountants, solicitors, bad debts and there are other things, they were just off the top of my head.
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And while all the above are getting more expensive, business's have to follow. If prices were to drop, I for one would adjust my charge accordingly.
 
this is getting off the point of the OP post but that can be said for any job SFL/Davyjones.
In my job i can't claim more for experience/travel/time to work out problem as when i contract for a job I'm competing from people out of college.
If you are a ltd company or self employed you can claim milage expenses and buying of new equipment can be claimed back.

If this is a nixer/foxer then i think 10-15 euro's an hour as there is no PRSI/VAt being paid or any other costs as outline by the lads above.
 
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I paid the guy €500 in the end. 20 hours @ €20 euro Also he bought some of the materials for me complete with receipts totalling €134.44. I think it was a fair price for the work which was excellent. We kinda know the guy and each time I asked him about the price he said he didn't really know. I think he was leaving it up to me TBH. I usually make sure of the price in advance but on this occasion it turned out well for both parties. I'd use him again. Great to get someone whose interested in the 'not-huge' jobs that does not try to quote you silly prices for it.
 
majee said:
I paid the guy €500 in the end. 20 hours @ €20 euro Also he bought some of the materials for me complete with receipts totalling €134.44. I think it was a fair price for the work which was excellent. We kinda know the guy and each time I asked him about the price he said he didn't really know. I think he was leaving it up to me TBH. I usually make sure of the price in advance but on this occasion it turned out well for both parties. I'd use him again. Great to get someone whose interested in the 'not-huge' jobs that does not try to quote you silly prices for it.
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I'm glad you are happy with the work you got done

johnnyg said:
this is getting off the point of the OP post but that can be said for any job SFL/Davyjones.
In my job i can't claim more for experience/travel/time to work out problem as when i contract for a job I'm competing from people out of college.
If you are a ltd company or self employed you can claim milage expenses and buying of new equipment can be claimed back.
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Walk a mile in these shoes.
 
S.L.F said:
€550 that's only €110 per day

I know labourers who get that:eek:

A man couldn't keep his tools up to scratch with such a low wage.

A good drill gun costs €250, chop saw €400.

................................

Regarding what the op should pay I think if its a nixer €400 would about right that's cash
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Decent Chopsaw - 1200, blade for it - 64 rough cut, 120 clean, router - over 400, bits - start from 50, btw. Decent startup gear for carpenter - 7 to 12K.
Depends on how qualified work needs to be done.

For 520/week you can get single operation capable fella with no brains, drinking a few gallons of tea/day.
Any respectfull CARPENTER never go out for less than 250/day.

As for that hungarian boy, depends what he did in these 20h. If he managed to hang one door - 150 is more, than enough.

Always get job done on price. On some cases it could be daywork, but it has to be a plan, much to be done that day.
 
DavyJones said:
That is a lot, am on the wrong trade. How many hours did he work for? I know that on site chippies take home no more than €550 a week. However your man may have had to pay tax and VAT out of that €35 an hour.
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I know a chippie, who had a wallplate, rafters, 3 velux installed, felted and battoned hipped roof on a sunroom in a day on his own. He built a 6.2m x 4m timberframe barrellboard cladded logcabin, t&g inside walls/ceilings in 3 weeks on his own, incl tiled roof, basework, cutom manufactured finnished details.

Do you think 550/week, or 110/day is enough for that amount work done?
 
Dreamhouse said:
I know a chippie, who had a wallplate, rafters, 3 velux installed, felted and battoned hipped roof on a sunroom in a day on his own. He built a 6.2m x 4m timberframe barrellboard cladded logcabin, t&g inside walls/ceilings in 3 weeks on his own, incl tiled roof, basework, cutom manufactured finnished details.

Do you think 550/week, or 110/day is enough for that amount work done?
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I was referring to tradespeople who are employed by construction firms and no, I don't think it's enough but thats the way it is. If you won't getout of bed for less than €250 a day, I expect you will be seeing a lot of your bedroom over the next 24 months.
 
DavyJones said:
I was referring to tradespeople who are employed by construction firms and no, I don't think it's enough but thats the way it is. If you won't getout of bed for less than €250 a day, I expect you will be seeing a lot of your bedroom over the next 24 months.
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what u say there is very true, a lot of folk in certain trades will need to adjust their earning expectations to more realistic levels if they want to earn a living- harsh but true
 
well, nixer rates are only good for nixer jobs - i.e. they need to be discounted rates to allow for the fact that this is 'cream' for them. You don't pay normal rates for nixers.

Mind you, official rates for carpenters around here now is 220/day. Therefore, nixers are less.
 
Well just to add, as well as all the massive expenditure a qualifiedv legitimate tradesman has to pay out year in year out another consideration is the fact that all those office workers who complain of high rates charged enjoy the benefits of how many paid weeks per year in holidays???? not to mention all the sick pay they get when they throw their regular sickies, and rain does not stop a person operating a computerv as it does a blocklayer, roofer, plasterer etc. A tradesmen only earns on the days he works.
 
With regard to earlier posts, there is a big differance between a tradesperson getting a weekly wage/sick/holiday pay and a self employed tradesperson who should be on atleast twice what a employee is.

If I was to pay a selfemployed tradesperson on a daily rate I would expect to pay in excess of €250 per day.
If I was to pay a tradesperson who was in full time employment and worked for me at weekends or evenings, then I would expect to pay lower because overheads are reduced.
 
Hi Dreamhouse,

As you are no doubt aware its not always possible to judge how long a job will take.

There are always jobs that are awkward and are not straight forward.

I have had, in the past, people ask me to do a whole bunch of small jobs, in that circumstance its best to do a daily rate.

Now all my jobs are piece work.
 
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