Hibernian moving to India - is it time we acted?

Purple said:
I get what you are saying but it's the result you don't like, not the theory.
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The theory is just that - theory. It's not as if the Hibernian staff get the chance to adjust their income to keep the positions. The Hibernian execs who want to boost their own bonuses are quite happy to wipe out 580 jobs at the stroke of a pen, and will almost certainly damage the customer service provided to their customers.

Purple said:
Do you think that Jim Flavin and the CEO of Bank of Ireland are typical of every private sector earner?
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They are about as typical of the private sector as the frequently-quoted examples of public sector performance are typical of the public sector. They are of course the tip of the iceberg. We all encounter terrible products and services in both the public and private sectors. We all encounter chancers who aren't pulling their weight in both the public sector.

Creating division by scapegoating public sector staff will do little to help our economic woes.
 
Complainer said:
Don't make me laugh with pay for performance in the private sector? How much was Jim Flavin paid for costing DCC in the region of €80m? Even when senior execs are 'fired', this is generally a negotiated settlement (at the cost of the business of course). How is pay for performance applying to the CEO of BOI whose shareholder value has halved in the past year?
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If you take the bother to read my post I accepted that performance pay does not exist everywhere in the private sector but that to me, it does not seem to exist at all in the private sector.

For the record, Brian Goggins(CEO BOI ) saw his performance related bonus fall from €2m in 2007 to €323k in 2008. Bear in mind as well that BOI EPS was up 4% in the last 12 months and the company is highly profitable, regardless of the way the share price has gone
 
Complainer said:
They are about as typical of the private sector as the frequently-quoted examples of public sector performance are typical of the public sector. They are of course the tip of the iceberg. We all encounter terrible products and services in both the public and private sectors. We all encounter chancers who aren't pulling their weight in both the public sector.
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Just to be clear, do you think that competition has any bearing on efficiency?
If not then there's not much point in us debating as we are on different planets when it comes to economics and the economy. If you do then do you accept that competition is more prevalent in the private sector and therefore the private sector will be more efficient?

Complainer said:
Creating division by scapegoating public sector staff will do little to help our economic woes.
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I agree and have said so already in the "recession" thread.
 
Complainer said:
The Hibernian situation proves the ineffectiveness of the 'basic supply and demand' theory. Hibernian workers didn't lower their wages. They lost their jobs to India. I wonder how long it will take before Irish banks start advertising 'call centres in Ireland' as a product benefit, as has happened in the UK.

I don't disagree that public sector salaries have an indirect knock-on effect on the overall economy, but to suggest that the solution to the Hibernian situation lies in public sector salaries is at best misguided, and at worst a flawed attempt to spin the IBEC/PD agenda yet again. If you believe that wage levels are the cause of the problem, then the place to start is with the wages of the staff involved.

For the record, I don't believe that the solution to this situation lies in wage cuts by public or private sectors. This is of course the 'race to the bottom' that the IBEC men (note the lack of gender balance) have wet dreams over. It would be helpful for those who believe the solution to our economic woes lie in wage cuts to lead by example. When do you think that will start happening?
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Well there is nothing stopping women becoming businesswomen and being part of IBEC, IBEC does have women members but the majority are men because men start businesses and take risks, there is nothing precluding women from joining, how do you propose to achieve gender balance, do a mugabe on it and force companies headed by men to cease or have a state sponsored seizure, mugabe in zimbabwe was the ultimate statist solution to percieved inequalities in business there.
 
"IBEC/PD agenda" whats this union jargon, its like the unionists referring to Sinn Fein as "Sinn Fein/IRA" , we can all play that game how about Impact/Sinn fein or ICTU/Labour, if you researched it you would probably find that most IBEC members are not PD supporters, the same way as most union members in the public service do not support sinn fein because most public sector workers are middle class not working class. Most IBEC members are small indiginous businesses many who are now in financial trouble
 
joe sod said:
Most IBEC members are small indiginous businesses many who are now in financial trouble
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They're not, actually. The preponderance of IBEC membership subscriptions are derived from large employer groups including those in the semi-state sector. The main banks, RTE, the ESB and VHI are all among the most powerful members of IBEC. Granted, some small indigenous businesses are members of the Small Firms Association, which operates under IBEC's wing. Some are members of ISME which split from IBEC in the early 1990s as they felt that IBEC were not properly representing them. Most small indigenous businesses belong to no representative organisation.
 
I can include myself in that last group since, like most of them, we are too busy working to attend talking shops. I leave that to unions and the public sector.
 
My employers are members of IBEC and I have to say that I find their advice on HR and management issues to be pretty good and it is an effective way of getting external advice when needed, especially as being part of a mulit-national, much of our support services are in shared service centres in places like India and staffed by people who with the best will in the world, don't always have the local knowledge
 
Mpsox said:
much of our support services are in shared service centres in places like India and staffed by people who with the best will in the world, don't always have the local knowledge
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And the thread runs full circle!
 
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