That's what I meant actually - colleagues in the widest sense. I would have respect for Joe Higgins too.
Pat Rabbitte to resign today?
- Thread starter Jock04
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That's what I meant actually - colleagues in the widest sense. I would have respect for Joe Higgins too.
Well I cant say I know what it takes to be in government, but you have to credit some of the FFailers for cuteness & ability to get things done. E.g.
Bertie, Cowen, McDowell (to some extent & I know he was PD!), Harney (ok a PD - against all odds she made some headway but dont agree with private hospitals on public land), Hanafin?, Roche (unfairly malaigned?)
None of these are junior ministers but I presume they had their day as junior ministers.
I'm not a FFailer so I can also see the dross - Cullen, Dempsey (had high hopes of him at one time), Lenihan.
Fine Gael in Kenny, Bruton & a few more if I could think of them off hand would be good in office.
& then theres Pat Rabitte - jee, dunno about him, probably ok in his ministry but I just dont see him as a leader of men. For all the slagging Enda Kenny got I think he does have that quality.
Being relentlessly negative or sniping leads me to believe (maybe wrongly) that a politician has no great vision of their own, I want to vote for someone with a vision and enough smarts to at least get part of the way there, Pat wouldnt have ever convinced me of his vision.
So middle class and middle aged?
Yes, indeed you do have to credit some of FF, e.g. how did Charlie get all that money? What did Ray Burke go to prison for? And don't forget the recent report of the European Environmental Agency which cited Dublin to Eastern European cities as the worst example of planning and the one not to follow. Yes, indeed you do have the marvel at the cuteness of the FF and guess what? We are still paying for it!
Irish people don't vote for vision mainly because they can't understand it. Imagine a politican turning up at a clinic saying I've read legilsation or saying we have to think in a regional/national context and forget one dimensional local issues. How long do you think s/he would last? The current Shannon issue is a case in point.
Johnny Boy
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This is one of the best countries to live in at the present.There is no doubt that things could be improved but what a transformation. Who is responsable or who can take credit is wide and varied alot of people played their part. Pat Rabbitte will not be up there. What has he done? I am not asking this in an argumenative way but enlighten me
Yep. As far as I can see, most people vote with their stomachs, wallets, hearts...etc - never their heads.
An interesting question and the answer to which we will never fully know. I would imagine that it has been a combination of factors. There have been a number of people who have taken credit not that we are experiencing a slight downturn it will be interesting to see what will be said. In regard to Pat Rabitte's contribution, you could ask that question of any politician Govt or opposition.
But will we ever learn in this country and or will the gombeen man always win out? Politicians in this country seriously pander to the lowest common denominator.
Johnny Boy
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"On what basis do you deduce this? The long commutes, the long public health waiting lists, the bad planning, the corruption, do seriously erode the quality of life."
Quaility of Life is very good here (try living in England) a great educational system surplus of employment Liberal thinking society. My biggest with this quam with this Government is their policies or lack of on energy where by all accounts Nuclear seems to be the most rational. Bad planning seems to happen anyways whether there is corruption or not
Quaility of Life is very good here (try living in England) a great educational system surplus of employment Liberal thinking society. My biggest with this quam with this Government is their policies or lack of on energy where by all accounts Nuclear seems to be the most rational. Bad planning seems to happen anyways whether there is corruption or not
I don't necessarily agree, our bad planning has been definitely been influenced by corruption. And in some senses you can never recover from bad planning...once its done its done..the link between transport and planning has never been established in this country...a major, major failing...
Johnny Boy
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I would agree 100% but at the fast rate this country's economy developed in the last 15 years it took everybody by surprise.The infastruture was very basic 20 years ago. I hope that labour elects a leadar that will embrace new Ireland and will be policy driven and that will go into Government. They used to say to FF and FG to leave the civil war politics behind them, now its time Labour left the holier than thou image behind and be honest with themselves. At the minute they are relics of a bygone era
Not necessariliy true, we were making bad and corrupt planning decisions before 1992 (see Mahon Tribunal - Dublin Castle). We are still not linking planning and tranport decisions. The recommendation to allow Local Authorities to veto transport plans which was contained in the report by the group establishing the Dublin Transport Authority was rejected By Minister Cullen in November 2006.
I agree, the only way to eradicate bad planning is to scrap planning.
The Friday afternoon feeling has definitely entered this thread
I wasn't joking!
By scrapping planning laws you
- Discourage land hoarding
- Encourage better build quality as it is the only means developers can differentiate their product
- Remove corruption, or just councils sanctioning inappropriate development to gain more funding for the town
- Keep prices down through free and open competition
Ok, lets say you do all that, how do you deliver services to people if everybody builds anywhere they want to?
Not anywhere they want to, just anywhere they own land - you couldn't build a house in your neighbours garden for example. The person building will have to factor in the cost of providing services, which would be a lot more efficient than the current mess.