Eligibility to vote for Seanad

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I cannot understand how in this day and age you have to be a graduate to vote. Nevermind the whole idiocy of NUI and Trinity-v- the rest.
 
Re: Eligibiity to vote for Seanad

Hi there,
I was just thinking the same thing myself - I am a DCU alumni is this infering I went to a second rate collage - bearing that in mind for those that did not go to collage - are they second class citizens...
 
Re: Eligibiity to vote for Seanad

The whole thing is utterly elitist and is completely out of date. Mind you, so is the rest of the Seanad and how it is elected or choosen.
 
As part of Seanad reform they should make it elected by the general electorate rather than narrow sectoral interests as originally inspired by Mussolini's corporatist state model. As it stands it is completely elitist and anti-democratic. I am an NIHED (DCU) graduate and totally disagree with their campaign to simply extend the franchise to graduates of the newer universities. The common argument that the current model (in particular the education panel(s?)) gives rise to independent thinkers is facile. One common argument against widening the franchise is that it will end up full or party political representatives. If that was the case then surely it would just be democracy in action?
 
ClubMan said:
As part of Seanad reform they should make it elected by the general electorate rather than narrow sectoral interests as originally inspired by Mussolini's corporatist state model. As it stands it is completely elitist and anti-democratic.
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Democracy allowed Beverly Flynn to be elected, too, you know!!!
 
I suppose my point is that democracy is not a panacea for all ills - we still select morons, whether they be chosen by everybody (Dail) or an elite (Senate). Why duplicate the Dail selection system for the Seanad? What's the point of that, is what I'm asking.

Of course, we could go to the other extreme and select Senators based on front cover appearances in Hello magazine (if I knew how to insert a smiley, it would go here!!)
 
Markjbloggs said:
I suppose my point is that democracy is not a panacea for all ills - we still select morons, whether they be chosen by everybody (Dail) or an elite (Senate). Why duplicate the Dail selection system for the Seanad? What's the point of that, is what I'm asking.
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Democracy may not a panacea for all ills but it's the best we have come up with so why not have the most democratic system possible?
 
Markjbloggs said:
I suppose my point is that democracy is not a panacea for all ills - we still select morons, whether they be chosen by everybody (Dail) or an elite (Senate). Why duplicate the Dail selection system for the Seanad? What's the point of that, is what I'm asking.

Of course, we could go to the other extreme and select Senators based on front cover appearances in Hello magazine (if I knew how to insert a smiley, it would go here!!)
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So what's your solution to the perceived problematic situations that democracy might throw up?
 
If the standard populist system that is used to elect the Dail is also used to elect the Seanad, why have a Seanad in the first place?

I am not advocating a replacement of Democracy, I just don't see the point in applying an identical model to both houses of the Oireachteas.
 
Markjbloggs said:
If the standard populist system that is used to elect the Dail is also used to elect the Seanad, why have a Seanad in the first place?

I am not advocating a replacement of Democracy, I just don't see the point in applying an identical model to both houses of the Oireachteas.
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Because they have different functions but both are meant to represent the people.
 
The thing about the Seanad is what does it do??? If there were elections - that would bring such a body to the people and we would gain a clearer insight of what its role is within Ireland..
 
Exactly, have a referendum and do away with the Seanad entirely. I have never heard a convincing reason why we need an upper house; just a load of self-serving justifications put forward by appointees and others who have been rejected by the electorate.
 
Markjbloggs said:
If the standard populist system that is used to elect the Dail is also used to elect the Seanad, why have a Seanad in the first place?

I am not advocating a replacement of Democracy, I just don't see the point in applying an identical model to both houses of the Oireachteas.
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OK - that's a different matter. Earlier you seemed to be implying that because people can elect "morons" as you put it then a restricted franchise for the likes of the Seanad was justified. There is certainly a case to be made for doing away with the so called "upper" house.
 
The Seanad should act, in theory, as a check on the Dail. Of course, given the manner in which it operates I think this is far from the truth. I wouldn't be in favour of doing away with it altogether, but the current system is a shambles.
 
The Seanad should act, in theory, as a check on the Dail.
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In that case why is the Taoiseach allowed to nominate people - surely this would be wrong as those would be alies!
 
The media is undemocratic too but we put up with them. Theres nothing wrong with an undemocratic Seanad if an alternative system of selection is found to work in its place .
I dont mind the fact that captains of industry such as Fergal Quinn or people who make a diverse contribution to public debate such as David Norris get into the Seanad. However I do mind it becoming a home for political cronyism and jobs for those who werent lucky or talented enough to get elected and I think many of those who deserve to be there would have a public profile in any case for one reason or another.
It is definitely flawed and in need of reform but we should ask ourselves, do we want the country to be run by a chicken with 2 heads and 2 wills with 2 legs going in opposite directions ? I think the result of an equally elected chamber would be indecisiveness when dealing with important issues like tax and defending the national interest.
As long as our democratically elected leaders are sitting in the Dail then we dont have to worry too much about a democratic deficit in society because they can always be removed if a sufficient number of people choose to vote that way.

I think getting appointed to the Seanad could be a way for Irish people who have contributed to society to be honored and if it was done correctly then those people could continue to contribute in public life. Its just one of many options but being placed in the seanad for reason of cronyism should be definitely out the window...

But bear in mind that despite everything I have written above I know very little about what they do and would like to know exactly how much the Seanad costs the state each year ? And can anyone name one good thing which has resulted from the Seanad ?

I also have this question. If the government appoints a senator who subsequently does not support and opposes the government publicly , can they remove him from this office ?
 
The taxpayers don't pay the media though - we do contribute to the salaries of "public representatives".
 
sign said:
I think getting appointed to the Seanad could be a way for Irish people who have contributed to society to be honored...
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An honours system by the back door? No thanks. I'd prefer to live in a Republican meritocracy to be honest.

And, on the same sort of tangent, don't get me started on honorary degrees! :mad:
 
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