Poppies/How to commemorate war dead?

[Seagull]

the poppy commemorates all British solider in all British wars including those that were sent ot Ireland to attempt to crush the Irish.

As I've already pointed out, the poppy does not only represent British war dead.

 

[Lumpsum]

Rearing a puppy is not as divisive as wearing a poppy.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=318842&posted=1#post318842

 

[rabbit]

Its not divisive to most people around the world. Lets face it, only the bigots could find it objectionable that other people may remember millions of war dead. What opinion do the people who find it divisive and objectionable have on the Enniskillen Remberbrance day bombing ? Even the russians - then the cold war adversaries of the British - strongly condemned that atrocity. No divisiveness from them on poppies.

 

[propertyprof]

Its not divisive to most people around the world. Lets face it, only the bigots could find it objectionable that other people may remember millions of war dead. What opinion do the people who find it divisive and objectionable have on the Enniskillen Remberbrance day bombing ? Even the russians - then the cold war adversaries of the British - strongly condemned that atrocity. No divisiveness from them on poppies.

Selective history remebering is a skill which you hold in abundance.

Actually I think that you will find that most people in Ireland find the wearing of a poppy objectionable - and rightly so!

You might think the poppy represents somrthing else but actually you are wrong and havent a clue 1. what it actually stands for and 2. where the money goes.

 

[propertyprof]

It goes to help war veterans and their families and is distributed through the Royal British Legion. These people are often sidelined by the government so it is hugely beneficial to show them that people do actually care and are grateful for the sacrifice they made.

Unfortunately, unlike the republican "veterans" AKA spineless murderers , they don't have the option of lucrative incomes from criminality, politics and taxpayer funded "peace process" quangos.

Veterans of what Yorky??

Oh yeah the republican volunteers are so spineless that they give there lives for a noble cause with a nice little salary, army house, health scheme and a pension!!!

Also how was the republican cause supposed to fund their arming without smuggling etc - its nice and easy for the UVF/UDA and LVF they have the British Army and the British taxpayer to back them!!
Edited by Marion: intemperate personal attack removed. Please abide by the . How can anyone stand by the british army's involvement in Bloody Sunday - its the British army who are the murders so dont try and take the moral high ground - Loughall, Gibraltar, Derry, Lee Clegg - you disgust me

 

[Guest127]

I said I wouldn't post again on this topic but reluctantly I have decided to. This topic started as a wearing poppy debate and all I know is that there are too many graveyards in France and Germany ( and other places) filled with young Irish, British, American, Canadian, French etc etc ( on the allied side alone) filled with young citizens of the above countries who never again saw their parents, wives, children, grandchildren, colour tv's, computers, man in space etc, so that me, and thousands like me, including propertyprof ( whether he likes it or not) could live in a free world. I agree with profertyprof on excesses by the brits, who doesn't? but there's the other side too - Gerry McCabe springs to mind fairly easily.

 

[Purple]

I always think of how Tom Creen, one of the greatest polar explorers who ever lived, has been ignored by Irish history because he was in the British Navy. I think that it is a shame that we have not properly commemorated the tens of thousands of Irish men that gave their lives in two world wars. Some of them went to fight for freedom, some of them went to fight so that their families could eat; it doesn't really matter why. What matters is that we have shamefully ignored them for so long.
Is the Poppy the right symbol to use? I don't know. I agree that it also symbolises those British solders that were sent to pacify the Irish. We should remember that many of the solders sent by the crown to crack heads in Africa and India were Irish and we were happy to do it…one third of Nelsons navy at the battle of Trafalgar were Irish.

We are certainly not in a position to occupy the moral high ground when talking about the British armed forces. I think our moral abdication at least balances the scales.

The issue is whether the poppy is an appropriate symbol to commemorate Irish war dead. Since many Irish man died in the American armed forces in the Second World War (and some in the first), some died in the Spanish civil war, some died on both sides of the Napoleonic wars and many died fighting the English in 1798 and before, I think that we should have our own symbol.
That doesn’t mean that we should not respect the wearing of the poppy and the sacrifice of the vast majority of those it remembers.

 

[daveirl]

I'm in neither camp here, I'm not a Republican in the Sinn Fein sense of the word but I'm certainly not like Yorky either. One question Yorky, do you not think it's a bit absurd to suggest that the Provo's actions were completely outrageous and without cause and then in the same post suggest that poor old Lee Clegg was just a little upset because he was the target of the Provos? You're making out as if the Nationalist community had no reason whatsoever to mistrust British security forces.

Also you'd want to get off that high moral ground, you have no place on it when you think it'd be funny to see people getting killed on YouTube. Do you think American security forces having their heads chopped off while alive in Iraq is funny too, do you?

 

[propertyprof]

Not do it in the first place and be governed by the legitimate Irish army and the rule of law.


They are funded the same way as the IRA: criminality. But those thugs are not as clever as the republican ones and don't have a global white collar business empire or other terrorists groups (such as Cocaine producing thugs in Columbia) to buy into their terrorising skills base.


Because they didn't fire the first shot and were governed by the rule of law unlike the guerilla army who had infiltrated the civil rights movement. Bloody Sunday was the best thing that happened to the provos as it gave them the means to create the monster that exists to this day in Northern Ireland. Same goes for the hunger strikers - the provos were hell-bent on making them martyrs and refused any deal to save their lives - they just wanted to keep the whole thing going; there's no profit in peace.


Loughgall: the provos were there to murder as many security force personnel as possible and they got a dose of their own medicine ( can you imagine their faces when they discovered what was happening? - would have been great for U-Tube)

Gibraltar: Ditto Loughgall.

Londonderry: Already discussed

Lee Clegg: If you were a soldier in a war zone with the full knowledge that the sole intention of a small proprtion of the population was to kill you - perhaps you might be in a high state of stress and act irrationally.
But then again, this rarely happened with the provos as the bomb was calmly planted and then detonated when safe to do so.


Why, thank you - I certainly wouldn't want to be admired by you.

now we see the true colours! no further comment needed!

 

[ludermor]

I have to say i disagreed with a lot of what Propertyprof had to say on this thread but Yorkys last comments sickened me.

 

[rabbit]

I have to say i disagreed with a lot of what Propertyprof had to say on this thread but Yorkys last comments sickened me.

What Yorky says is the truth and the truth is sure to sometimes educate those who have been indoctrinated with republican propoganda over the years.