What's so wrong with Enda?

Originally quoted by daltonr
After 7 years the "loan" would have become a gift, and as such was liable for tax. Tax Evasion 1.
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My understanding is that there is no tax on loans. If daltonr is correct in saying that a loan becomes "a gift" after seven years then it will be up to Revenue to decide whether or not tax is due; to say these loans constituted "tax evasion" has yet to be determined.

With regard to the Manchester collection of ~ £8,000 Stg, according to reports so far, since the contributors did not live in this jurisdiction no tax is due on that amount either.

Revenue (and Accountants) would know whether or not these amounts constitute tax evasion so I would prefer to await that confirmation.
 
sherib said:
to say these loans constituted "tax evasion" has yet to be determined.

...

Revenue (and Accountants) would know whether or not these amounts constitute tax evasion so I would prefer to await that confirmation.
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This tallies with my understanding of these issues to date too. For people to assert, on the basis of information currently available, that corruption or tax evasion has been established as fact is quite dodgy in my opinion.
 
sherib said:
With regard to the Manchester collection of ~ £8,000 Stg, according to reports so far, since the contributors did not live in this jurisdiction no tax is due on that amount either.
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We've already been told that 3 or 4 of the people at this meeting (out of 25) were actually Irish residents. If these and more were Irish, and more made donations, then there'd definitely be tax considerations.

However, on a more specific and dubious note, the withholding of the listing of people there by Bertie is becoming more and more suspicious.

He says he didn't know who exactly was there, yet immediately when confronted about the fact that Michael Wall was present, he's instantaneously able to say that while he was there, he didn't give any money to the collection.

So, he's gone from a position of not knowing to who was there, to knowing who was there and who did or didn't give money.

This is unreal!!!
 
My understanding was that at least some of the people on the Trip came from Ireland. But even if they were all resident in the UK, my reading of the rules is that Gift tax would still have been owed because Bertie was himself a resident of Ireland. Unless the law was changed after this particular trip.

What property is liable to Gift/Inheritance Tax?
All property in the State is liable to gift/inheritance tax.
Assets outside of the State are subject to gift/inheritance tax if:​


the disponer is resident or ordinarily resident in the State at the date of the disposition, or
​

​

the beneficiary is resident or ordinarily resident in the State at the date of the gift or inheritance
​
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Regardless, you have the then Finance Minister, the current Taoiseach, receiving money and not declaring it. Don't you think if he had told revenue all about this money and it was all above board, those would have been the first words out of his mouth in the Dail when confronted with it?​

Some of you may be content to leave him has Taoiseach and wait until he has retired before Revenue get a chance to look into it. Keep the other guys out of government until they come up with a leader that doesn't look like a charater from a kids book.​

I'd like to think that a political leader who can't explain himself and only "remembers" new details when confronted with them would be subject to a little more scrutiny. I'd have thought the stench of financial irregularities would trump someones haircut when deciding the next Taoiseach.​

Innocent until proven guilty is one thing. Above questioning until proven guilty is entirely different. A political leader who can't answer legitiamte questions is not fit to hold office.​

There is something rotten at the heart of this whole affair, and it shouldn't be allowed to drop off the radar of either the media or the public. If we know anything about these issues from past experience, it's that the truth will come out as slowly as those involved can manage. When you stop asking the questions that's the limit of how much truth you'll get.​

Not to drag this into conspiracy theory land, but I can't help wondering if Mary Harney's sudden departure is in anyway connected to all of this.
How much and when she knew has yet to be fully explored.​

If it turns out she evacuated the PD leadership rather than lead the PD's in support of Ahern then McDowell's stunt up the lamp post becomes all the more laughable, and her otherwise good record ends with a big black mark, or at least a big black question mark.​

-Rd​


​
 
daltonr said:
Some of you may be content to leave him has Taoiseach and wait until he has retired before Revenue get a chance to look into it. Keep the other guys out of government until they come up with a leader that doesn't look like a charater from a kids book.
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Who said that?
 
dalton said:
Not to drag this into conspiracy theory land, but I can't help wondering if Mary Harney's sudden departure is in anyway connected to all of this.
How much and when she knew has yet to be fully explored.
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See "Poisoned Chalice" in Shooting the Breeze!!
 
I'd like to think that a political leader who can't explain himself and only "remembers" new details when confronted with them would be subject to a little more scrutiny. I'd have thought the stench of financial irregularities would trump someones haircut when deciding the next Taoiseach.
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Remember Brian Lenehan's....."upon mature reflection......" :rolleyes:
 
ClubMan said:
This tallies with my understanding of these issues to date too. For people to assert, on the basis of information currently available, that corruption or tax evasion has been established as fact is quite dodgy in my opinion.
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Agreed, i was a little premature in my assertion that what has happened is undeniably tax evasion, however, in my opinion, there is no way that the revenue can leave this unchallenged - why would anyone bother paying any tax anymore? I can see situations especially re gift tax and cgt (but also income tax) where this could be abused on a massive scale.
 
>however, in my opinion, there is no way that the revenue can leave this >unchallenged

If you or I are accused by Revenue of evading tax, the onus of proof is on us to show that we didn't.
I didn't make that rule, but I'm as bound by it as the next guy. If anyone deserves to be bound by the rules
it's the guys that make them up.

When there is as much evidence of evasion as there is in the case of Ahern, then I think it's only fair that
the burden of proof fall on him. It is not for the voters to prove he is guilty, it is for him to prove he is innocent. Until then I consider him guilty of tax evasion.

I haven't even questioned the other 50K that appeared out of nowhere. I think I'm being generous in focusing only on the money that we actually know the source of. I doubt the revenue would be as generous if they Audited me.

Remember it was Ahern himself who stated that he received the 8000 FOR A SPEAKING ENGAGEMENT. He corrected himself later, presumably when someone who understood the implications of the truth managed to convince him that a small lie might be more prudent.

Are we now to have the Dail turned into a Who Wants to Be A Millionaire show, where the opposition must keep asking 'Is that your Final Answer?'

50 to 100K is off the wall, is that your final answer Mr Ahern?
The guy who sold you your house just drove the bus, is that your final answer?
You were paid for speaking, is that your final answer?
Oh! No, you want to change to it was a gift, because of your family troubles.
What was the topic of your speech, that motivated such a gift. "Being Homeless In Dublin"

Isn't it funny that after that spell as a hobo you never felt compelled to do more for the people who actually
are on the streets in Dublin. Did you assume they all had friends to donate 50 to 100K as well?

Oh I'm sorry, you were sitting on a long and successful political record and could have taken up a nice European Post, or an all expenses paid holiday at the Aras, but I'm afraid you've lost it all. If only your final answer had been the right one.

-Rd
 
Purple said:
What's all this got to do with Enda? :D
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Nothing. That's the point.
Don't let the debate switch to what's wrong with the opposition, until the current questions have been answered. Whether it's a chat in a pub, or online, or media coverage, or government soundbites.

I understand why the original poster asked the question, it was probably the best thing to do considering that even the thread about Ahern turned into questions about Kenny and Rabbitte. But it's important to keep the focus where it really needs to be.

These guys get off the hook too easily by digging their heels in until the media and the public get bored and move on. There are serious questions and this one isn't the first, about the goins on with this government and those questions need to be asked and answered.

There are questions about what Michael McDowell was doing up a lamp post promising to be the watchdog of the government.

The opposition can't score a goal with an open net in front of them, and that is indeed worrying. But there will be pleanty of time to worry about that AFTER Mr Ahern has answered the questions that remain over him.

-Rd
 
Purple said:
Bring back Ruairi Quinn...
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While I wouldn't disagree with your sentiment, it is worth pointing out that Pat is not a one-man show. He is the leader, no more, no less. He does not make policy off his own bat. And (I presume) the same applies for each of the other leaders.

Maybe it's time to start voting on policies, not personalities.
 
When Ruairi brought out his autobio, "Straight Left", it was a sad day.
Here was a man who was presumably putting the full stop on a long period of what he hoped was good honest Socialist politics, and he needed a title that blunt to make sure people remembered he was a Socialist.

Straight from the Bertie Ahern school of Book titles....
"Bertie Ahern Taoiseach and Peacemaker."
OK Bertie didn't write his book. But I can feel the hand of his
advisers resting on the shoulders of the authors.

-Rd
 
daltonr said:
When Ruairi brought out his autobio, "Straight Left", it was a sad day.
Here was a man who was presumably putting the full stop on a long period of what he hoped was good honest Socialist politics, and he needed a title that blunt to make sure people remembered he was a Socialist.
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Wow - the glass really is completely empty for you, isn't it? I don't know Ruairi well, but I did manage to wangle an invitation to his book launch. I don't recall much sadness in the room, funnily enough. I got the feeling that he was quite happy with the book, title and all.

Coincidentally, I just got the book from the library last week, so I'm looking forward to getting stuck into it.
 
I couldnt vote for FG after they got into bed with Labour, people accuse FF (rightly too) of doing anything to get into/ stay in power, FG arent much better with the mullingar accord. One big difference i have noted between them is foregin policy, Gay Mitchell and others have been very pro NATO, EU battlegroups and scrapping the triple lock, labour are very much against these. I recently asked a chap who was canvesing for labour at the door how they could agree with that, he told me with wasnt important. I told him that where young irish men and women are sent and if put in harms way is important and ran his stealth taxing ar$e behind from the door....
 
Hi Contemporary - All coalitions involve compromises. Which party will you supporting?
 
can tell you the truth to be honest, i voted independent last time, I'd vote PD's to kepp the shinners out but i dont honestly know yet
 
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