Car free day - What car free day?

RainyDay and Ceist Beag - we KNOW all this (that we need better public transport), and when that happens THEN I will be happy to leave my car at home.

RainyDay you seemed to have changed your tune from ranting about people leaving cars at home now to admitting that the public transport needs to be better before it will happen so at least that's something.

As for the 'basic idea' that people need to consider their commute options when choosing where to live, IT'S VERY SIMPLE - people have to work in the cities to pay their massive mortgages, but can't afford to live in the cities because the property is too expensive, so it's very annoying to hear you make it sound easy to get your work and home close to one another or that it can be 'changed over time'. You don't seem to have much concept of the difficulties first time buyers are having getting anywhere to live never mind buying where they'd like to live.
 
As for the 'basic idea' that people need to consider their commute options when choosing where to live, IT'S VERY SIMPLE - people have to work in the cities to pay their massive mortgages, but can't afford to live in the cities because the property is too expensive, so it's very annoying to hear you make it sound easy to get your work and home close to one another or that it can be 'changed over time'. You don't seem to have much concept of the difficulties first time buyers are having getting anywhere to live never mind buying where they'd like to live.

Hi lmd - I'm very conscious of the difficulties faced by first time buyers today, and I've seen the impact of these difficulties first-hand with family members. However, I've also seen the hypocracy of those who whinge endlessly about house prices while spending €300 on a good night out every weekend. I've seen the hypocracy of those who whinge about long commutes who won't consider property in Finglas, or Tallaght, or East Wall or at the back of Blanch because Mummy wouldn't like it. I've seen the hypocracy of those who whinge about the rat race and working long hours while refusing to manage their career and the time.

First time buyers aren't victims - there are many things within their control.

Yes, we can all work where we live or live where we work but it’s not a realistic solution. Why should people not expect their taxes to be spent on things that make their lives better, like better roads?
Why not realistic? I realise it can't happen overnight, but please be specific about why this is not a realistic option? We can keep building the roads, and usage will expand to soak up the available capacity. It's a never ending cycle with no solution.
 
Why not realistic? I realise it can't happen overnight, but please be specific about why this is not a realistic option?
Because in most families both parents work. So you are expecting people to be able to either both find jobs that suit their skills and needs in the area that they wish to live in or find a house in an area where they can both find jobs that suit their skills and needs.
Your proposition is not viable or realistic in the short of medium term and in my opinion is not realistic at any time in the foreseeable future.
I do agree that people who do make what is a lifestyle choice to move to the proverbial big house in the country shouldn’t complain about the commute but this is not the scenario for the vast majority of people.
We can keep building the roads, and usage will expand to soak up the available capacity. It's a never ending cycle with no solution.
Why is it a never ending cycle? Other countries have a good road infrastructure and less congestion than us. The same scenario that you suggest could be applied to public transport or any other infrastructure. Do you suggest that we should stop building schools because people will keep having children to fill them?


By the way your inference that people will not but a house “in Finglas, or Tallaght, or East Wall or at the back of Blanch because Mummy wouldn't like it” is offensive. People choose to live in an area for many reasons. They may have family that they need or who need them, they may have friends and a social network that they think is important and weight heavily when choosing a place to live. They may think that their quality of life and more importantly the quality of life of their children will be better in one area over another. You also ignore the huge proportion of the population that live in rural areas; many of them are not making a lifestyle choice when they commute to their job, they are surviving.
 
Other countries have a good road infrastructure and less congestion than us.
Is that actually true? I know that most developed nations have better roads and much better public transport systems than us, but I can't think of anywhere I've been where traffic congestion is much better than here (possibly OZ), and can think of many places where congestion appears much worse (I exclude the Americas here as I have never been).
 
Is that actually true? I know that most developed nations have better roads and much better public transport systems than us, but I can't think of anywhere I've been where traffic congestion is much better than here (possibly OZ), and can think of many places where congestion appears much worse (I exclude the Americas here as I have never been).
I drive in Germany quite a bit and I can get around cities much bigger than Dublin much easier. I have less experience driving in the USA but Boston and towns in Florida were much easier to get around than Dublin. There will always be some congestion but nothing as bad as here. I am not suggesting that we are the worst, far from it. Anyone who has been stuck on a ring road around London for three hours will know this.
 
I have to agree with Rainyday here, it is all down to choices. Just because a choice might be difficult doesn't mean you don't have one. I used to drive to work (approx 8 miles) but I got sick of traffic and so now I cycle. Cycling means I sometimes get wet, it is cold in the winter and sometimes it can be a pain. Just because there are negatives attached to it doesn't mean I don't have a choice.

It has no gotten to the point where if I'm to change jobs it would have to be to a "cycle friendly" workplace, similar to where I work now. Again this is a choice.

Cycling of course isn't for everyone, I'm just citing my example. But often people think they don't have options when in fact it is just a case that they aren't thinking of any. There will always be people who have to drive but there's no way that everyone on the road each day absolutely has to be there.
 
You have a choice when your commute is 8 miles, hardly a marathon is it?

I LOVE living in a rural area and equally LOVE working in a city so I choose to comute and the only option is to drive.

30 miles each way.......

Certainly no option to work closer to home, I could chose to live closer to work but l don't want to.

When car free days are suggested they really are thinking of cities I think where public transport is a viable option for some people.
 
I don't own a car so this wouldn't really affect me...but a mate of mine was talking about the congestion charge in London and how it's tougher on the poor than the rich.

He suggested maybe charging people who only had one person in their car when entering central Dublin, but cars who had two or more people in it would not be charged.

What I was wondering is - who out there would be willing to car share? I mean, most of us live in estates where there must be a few people who work near we do. And if the government set up decent car pool or car share sites, do you think that would be a viable option? Or is the reality that people love their cars and want a bit of piece and quiet in the morning, along with the practicality of driving?

Another option I thought of was that parents could pay an annual fee and have a mini-bus pick up their kids from their estate and bring them back and forth to school. I was brought up abroad and all communities where I lived did this. Do you think this would be acceptable here?
 
You have a choice when your commute is 8 miles, hardly a marathon is it?
I didn't claim it was a marathon.

Certainly no option to work closer to home, I could chose to live closer to work but l don't want to.

I'm glad we agree that you have a choice and you have chosen to live 30 miles from work and commute everyday.
 
Of course everybody has choices. People could choose to leave Ireland completely and pursue their career in countries that do provide a means of getting around, be it by public transport as in New York or London, or by facilitating motorists as in Florida.

But just because people have the option to radically change their life style, doesn't get the countries like Ireland off the hook of providing facilities.

It's very worrying to hear people on this thread advising others to change job, or move house so that they can use public transport. What the hell kind of country do you want to create?

What you are in fact proposing is a country in which the options of the citizen are radically REDUCED. Why shouldn't a person in a free country expect to be able to live in the countryside and work in the city? Why is it so difficult to create that option for people?

It's the perfect work/life balance as far as I can see. Having grown up in the countryside and later lived in cities I know damn well where I'd prefer to raise kids. But to listen to the Public transport advocates, I shouldn't be allowed to choose that way of life. Or if I do choose It I must put up with nagging from the perenially naive that I'm wrong to choose to take my car to work because I'm destroying the environment.

Get over it. If you want to stop cars in your cities then build some park and rides on the outskirts so that people who live outside the city have somewhere to park and provide city transport that will get them in a reasonable time and with minimum hassle to their place of work/shopping/whatever.

For many currently looking for a house the option to buy in the cities DOES NOT EXIST. I'm sure many who live 50-100 miles from work and spend up to 4 hours a day commuting would much rather live closer to or even in cities. But the option does not exist. It like many other options has been elimintated by the way your cities have been developed, and by the way your government interacts with property developers and investors.

The last thing these people need on top of the hassle of spending hours everyday driving, is to listen to people telling them that on top of everything else they are destroying the planet.

Even those who might have the option of "over time" moving their home closer to work must put up with the fact that they would have to flush thousands of Euro in Stamp Duty on their existing house down the toilet, and flush even more on the purchase of their new house.

If you want a country in which people can move around then aim your guns at the idiotic policies that make moving harder, rather than at people barely making ends meet, despite earning a reasonable salary.

And please, for the love of god, if you are one of those people fortunate enough to have bought a house in Dublin a couple of years ago, with public transport options on your doorstep, and a nice chunk of equity in your property, then please remove yourself from this debate entirely. You have no concept of the OPTIONS that people actually have today.

When you start telling governments that instead of providing services they can instead curtail your rights then you are on a slippery slope. It reminds me of Fianna Fail's attempts to curtail the rights of people with disabilities to sue the government when the government failed to provide services that they were entitled to.

When otherwise intelligent rational people begin to accept that kind of thinking then you really have to worry about the future of the country. Perhaps in the end, you do get the government you deserve. Am I in the minority for thinking we deserve more than this?

-Rd
 
I'm glad we agree that you have a choice and you have chosen to live 30 miles from work and commute everyday.

Yes I get the best of both worlds in my eyes and the commute does not bother me in the slightest.

People who go on about my choices are slightly irritating though not hugely so.
 
Hi Rd - Good to see you back on AAM, though I have to confess that I'm a little disturbed by your suggestion that certain people should 'remove themselves' from the debate. AAM is open to all prepared to stay within the posting guidelines. I might feel that those who live outside the country (or those who live inside the country but want to live outside the country) should not be listened to, but that of course would be wrong.

Your suggestion of park-and-ride facilities to avoid bringing cars into the city is of course eminently sensible. It's a great idea. But I disagree with your suggestion that we should be highlighting the environmental issues associated with car usage, Prime Time tonight highlighted that Ireland has one of the worst records in the developed world for CO2 pollution and was considering scenarios that involved flooding of the runway at Shannon and Tarbert power station. We can't stick out heads in the sand and ignore these issues, regardless of how disturbing they are.

I don't accept your claim that it is just not possible to live 'in the city'. Myhome.ie has 36 properties in Dublin at under €250k (I excluded sites and properties incorrectly priced at zero from my search).

Hi Purple - Yes, I understand that people have many different reasons for choosing where they live, and I fully accept their rights to do so. I'm just suggesting that they tone down the whinging about their long commutes, when it is clearly not such a huge priority for them.
 
Re: Car free day - What car free day????

I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?

I can vouch for this.

I travel to work by walking to the bus stop - 20 minutes - and sitting on a bus for another 15/20 minutes. In a building of 25 people, 22 people drive, two get the bus while one walks.
Of the 22 drivers, three of them live less than 15 minutes walk away but insist on driving. I estimate that at least seven or eight of them could get the bus if they wanted to. I am not including people with children.

In my previous position, the office was a three minute walk from the DART station. Yet there were four people living not more than a few train stops away who insisted on driving - which took around twice as long as the DART. Again, these people were not dropping children off or anything like that.

While public transport in Ireland leaves a lot to be desired there is a significant minority out there who will insist on driving at all costs. Even when there are alternatives. For some of those people, travelling by public transport carries a stigma. Maybe they subscribe to the Margaret Thatcher school of thought - [paraphrased] 'any man over the age of 30 who finds him on a bus should consider himself a failure at life'.

The obsession with SUVs and larger environmentally-unfriendly vehicles is disappointing. Try to suggest walking / public transport to some of these people - citing it as a 'greener' option - and watch the reaction you get.
 
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